Why we should respect the Turkish 'Settlers' in TRNC

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 10:54

After reading through many of the posts on here, and those that end in a slanging match, it always come to light how badly we talk of the Turkish 'settlers'.

If it wasnt for the 1000s of workers who came to North Cyprus from main land Turkey, TRNC wouldnt be half of what it is today.



Similar to how hundreds of thousands of young male Turks were called into Germany after the second world war to help build Germany into what it has become today. When Germany lost the war and the labour force was in dire need of cheap labour to help rebuild the country.



After 40 years of building this country how can we now say "thanks but we dont need you now" and send them all back? after they have laid roots here with familes and children?



My point is, any talk on reunification has to take their basic human rights into account too, as they are now as much a part of cyprus as 'Turkish Cypriots' and 'Greek Cypriots.'



p.s. another point to consider...do you think the property would be as cheap if it was 'Cypriots' who are building away in the summer heat...i dont think so.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 11:22

hi reproman , welcome to the forum , i have to say that the posts don't always end in slanging matches , thankfully !but when they do its usually , more to do with the passion of the post , and the way some people respond , sometimes with verbal aggression , its human nature when you feel affronted by something you are uncomfortable with , you respond , but in an adult fashion , and without being personal ,i hope you enjoy using the forum

regards , simbas

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 11:23

Reproman,



Excellent posting. Well done. I will second that!



wyn

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 11:30

Reproman raises a valid point.



Some of the nicest and most honest people we have met here are Turkish and Kurdish people from the mainland.



They are the backbone of the workforce in many respects, doing the physically hardest jobs with the longest hours and lowest pay.



While there is a valid issue with the relative population numbers of Cypriots vs mainlanders its also unrealistic to think the economy could survive effectively without the labour they supply.



The only alternative would be to import large numers of labourers from third party countries from Asia and the Middle East etc which would create its own problems with language and cultural issues etc.



Aussie

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 11:37

Absolutely agree. My neighbours are Turkish Settlers. They are fantastic. The mother helped me to clean my flat when I moved in. She worked solidly for five hours and then made me a meal.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 12:13

of course they need respect for many reasons - but when you read post saying that too many setlers are in north cyprus it is because they are more turkish from mainlands than turkish cypriots in their own country - suppose you have more turkish in france or germany or any country where people immigrate - turkish cypriots may feel not in their country anymore - they do not bother us at all as long as people adapt themselves to way of life and respect the native cypriots who are more european in there way of thinking and education - you have good and bad people in both side - but you have to admit than a country with more setlers than native cypriots is very unusual !!! of course, now they have the right to stay into the country and it wont be unfair to do against them like the gc would like it to be !!!

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 12:23

Reproman,



A fantastic read and never truer words typed, hard working and loyal people.



Have a nice day.



T.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 13:16

Of those I've met and know, the Turkish settlers (especially the 2nd and 3rd generation) are as Turkish Cypriot as the indigenous Turkish Cypriots. Of course they must not be sent back to Turkey if they don't wish to return; North Cyprus is their country.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 14:27

Reproman,



You make good points about the settlers. Nobody can blame someone for seeking a better life for himself and his family. I do wonder, though, how many people would be as consistant in their support for the immigrant underdog if he was seeking asylum in the UK. If some of the posts on these BBs are anything to go by, I'd say selective and hypocritical racism is very apparent.



However, I think your message only addresses one side of the issue. The needs and desires of the ordinary Turkish Cypriots appear to be sidelined in any expat love-in with the settlers. Native TCs know very well the policy Turkey adopted to dump Anatolians on Greek Cypriot property. As a result, Turkish Cypriot language and culture has been eroded and the demographics of their own country changed illegally and without any concern for their rights. Ask an TC for their views - not the ones with either an agenda or several thousand miles separating them from the reality on the ground.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:23

What's your agenda then Pike? Wind-up merchant and/or Greek Cypriot sympathiser/propagandist?



The views of Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus and those outside of Cyprus are the same-they don't want to give up North Cyprus to the Greek Cypriots-so it ain't going to happen!



As you don't understand Turkish Cypriot culture, you cannot possibly understand that family ties are very strong between those in the TRNC(including their children/siblings etc.) and those who live outside the TRNC.



So that people don't start to believe you (Pike): The Turkish Cypriots HAVE NOT lost their language nor their culture, not in the TRNC nor elsewhere. Which Greek Cypriot told you that they had?



Pike you know nothing about Turkish Cypriots except how to puke out your propaganda against them and their country, the TRNC. Stop pretending to be sympathetic towards the Turkish Cypriots, everything you say is so clearly anti-Turkish Cypriot.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:29

My post was not intended to be in political support for any side of the Cyprus issue.

But merely making a stand for the Turkish settlers who are without voice on these forums.



The line:

" My point is, any talk on reunification has to take their basic human rights into account too, as they are now as much a part of cyprus as 'Turkish Cypriots' and 'Greek Cypriots.'



Clearly sums up my neutral standing, any talks need to consider the human rights of ALL SIDES, Greek cypriots, Turkish cypriots and of course the Turkish settlers.



The fact is they are now a part of Cyprus and have been a part of Cyprus for 40 years. Regardless of, as you put it..."the policy Turkey adopted to dump Anatolians on Greek Cypriot property"







The 'People' of cyprus are ALL pawns in this politcal mess.



I am not here to defend the actions of any side, and each time i make a post i cannot go into the WHOLE history of Cyprus, starting from the year DOT ( or as some like to believe cyprus history started only in 1974!)



Im was just making a point that i feel has yet been raised.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:30

Re Turkish settlers/Post 5

In exchange for the homes and land left by Turkish Cypriots on the Greek side. Oh dear, what an absolute hypocrite you are Susanne.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:33

Prev. post was with reference to message 10 not message 5.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 15:57

"i love cyprus



how hiporcritical can you get, your neighbours are settlers & you treat them like the local skivy! i thought slavevery went out years ago!! but then the North of Cyprus is still 3rd world thanks to the mainland Turks!!!!!!! "



Are you, Sussane, suggesting that immigrant workers in the UK that are doing all the crap jobs that Brits wont do for the low wages are 'Skives'?..or worse Slaves?

Toliet cleaners, builders, waiters, night workers, hotel cleaners?

Do you see them as SLAVES too?

or a fundemental part of the countries economy and therefore should be TREATED WITH RESPECT AND EQUALITY



making a statement that North cyprus is pro slavery is not only disgustingly false, but it also brings to light your very own "blinkered" view of the cyprus issues.



Its clear that you have NO RESPECT for these settlers or for the Turkish Cypriots who you accuse of using them as SLAVES.



I would stronly advise you to THINK before you post susanne...



At least Pike has the decency to make a vaild point, and puts the blame firmly on the politicans.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 16:00

p.s. i would strongly advise myself of using spell check! (but she wound me up with the slavery remark!!!)

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 16:15

Susanne, I class the Turkish settlers as human beings, and yes they have in actual fact integrated extremely well into Turkish Cypriot life and culture. They live in the TRNC and they belong in the TRNC just as much as the Greek settlers presumably belong in Greek Cyprus (unless you want them kicked out of South Cyprus, well that's for you and your government to deal with).



Also referring to North Cyprus as 3rd world (and blaming the Turkish settlers!!!) highlights your ignorance of the TRNC/Turkish Cypriots/Turkish immigrants.

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 17:23

Before i go and eat my sunday dinner...



here we are, 20 posts later and a 'slanging match' in well underway, and who are the ones being thrown left and right?...u guessed it...turkish settlers, like a child in a bitter divorce case.

And when did it all go worng?....when the likes of susanne joined in.

Ignoring her comments like "slavery and skivy" for one second, I believe we ALL agree, that the turkish settlers, regardless of why or how they came about to be in cyprus, are there NOW AND HAVE BEEN for a substaintal period of time. Therefore not only should we all treat them as equals, we should also be respecting their HUMAN RIGHTS when also trying to respect those of others...GREEK AND TURKISH CYPRIOTS alike.



which was my main point to start with.



In this post i am not interested in Why they were put there, or how North cyprus is not recognised, or who is to blame for this, clearly political mess.



the point is they are HUMAN beings as much as TC's and GC's and cannont be ignored as simple politcal pawns and be simply sent back without so much of a thought to there rights. Granting GC's there human rights and returning land by ignoring the rights of turkish settlers surly doesnt make sense.



Solving one problem by creating another? 1000's of newly displaced turkish setllers?...returning to where??...after 40 yrs of settlement in cyprus they now regard as HOME



The fact is, regardless of how or why they are here, they are here to stay, and we should stop refering to them as the 3rd class of Cyprus.



After years of talks breaking down, and time passing by, what would you expect people to do? Remain in a time freeze?

both sides mourn the loss of land and worse still...loss of life.

The north, as the south has, needed to move on from this. And with embargos and economic restrictions in place had no choice but to rely on help from Turkey with the workforce and of course financial aid.

If the issue was as clear cut as some like to believe, this wouldnt of lasted 40 or so years....but obvioulsy there is more to the Cyprus issue than all sides care to admit...some more than others.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 17:25

In the late 19th and during the 20th centuries there were significant numbers of Greek settlers to Cyprus. I don't mind if they stay in South Cyprus.



The Turkish Cypriot government has accepted the Turkish 'settlers' as citizens of North Cyprus/TRNC as have the Turkish Cypriots. Why shouldn't they? It was their Turkish soldiers who saved the Turkish Cypriots from the murderous Greeks/Greek Cypriots and Enosis. How conveniently Greek Cypriots forget their hand in all the problems in Cyprus and the fact they formed an illegal government in 1963, after ousting the Turkish Cypriots and making it impossible for them to govern as agreed in the 1960 Constitution (the legal ROC government as was then).

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 18:03

Enjoy your dinner susanne,



Cyprus is one big hot potato as we all know.



May we all have a lovely sunday where ever we are



T.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 19:14

Susanne

Don't know where YOU were educated but you use 'there' i.e. place

when you should use 'their' Most of my 2nd language students would not

make the same mistake! Sorry but couldn't resist it (English teacher)

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 20:09

susanne , why are you so hostile , there's really no need for it , surely you can put your point across without sounding so angry

regards , simbas

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 20:55

HI EVERYONE

let me put you all straight, i live in london and have done so since 1960 my

parents moved us here becouse of the english/greek skirmishes,

in them days in london english people were english and foreign were foreign.

today there is hardly any english or foreign we are all mixed hardly surprising

this is what has happened in the trnc only much quicker ,becouse there are

mainland turkish and t/c and they are fast becoming one people.

in another hundred years or so there only be one type of turkish and that will be cypriot this is something that most people haven,t realised but its there

and its never going away so people who want mainlanders out i am afraid

its too late and who is to blame i will let everyone work that one out.



long live the trnc and all who live there peace

ronaldo


Joined: 14/11/2007
Posts: 372

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 21:22

Susanne you are an ill educated bigoted type of person please read the history of Cyprus and the program of ENOSIS ! As for Greek settlers! What do you know ?

enjoy your Sunday Lunch.

Ron

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 22:16

Hooray again!!!!!



On all the BB's as soon as anyone starts to talk about "the other side of the argument" they are called all sorts of names, told to calm down, chill out or whatever.



On this thread it is Susanne who is taking the flack.



Also interesting to note one comment regarding Pt. Pikes lack of knowledge!!!!!!!



Oh dear, young Pike has lived in Northern Cyprus on and off for several years and has posted on BB's for a lot of that time. Oh yes, I did say NORTHERN CYPRUS!!! He does not need me to defend him but I get so fed up with the attitudes on here and the other boards where only one view is accepted. Who is the real "bigot"?

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 22:53

cih (message 30),

Amazing, you have managed to contradict yourself within your last two sentences. LOL.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 22:59

dy1259,



"What's your agenda then Pike? Wind-up merchant and/or Greek Cypriot sympathiser/propagandist?"



Is this a mature response to my post? Or is it simply intolerence of alternative views?



"As you don't understand Turkish Cypriot culture..."



Really?



"Pike you know nothing about Turkish Cypriots except how to puke out your propaganda against them..."



Apart from pointing out that you're starting to sound abusive, can't you provide your own reasoned arguments to back these allegations up? You don't know me, my family links to the Turkish Cypriots, my contacts with their politicians and business leaders and the work I have done with them over many years.



In short, you are revealing ignorance. The fact that the thread was dedicated to the fate of the Turkish settlers - and you have not devoted one word to them - would indicate someone perhaps not best suited to reasoned debate. Maybe you consider these people "karasakal", eh?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 23:08

phylray QUOTE:



"Susanne

Don't know where YOU were educated but you use 'there' i.e. place

when you should use 'their' Most of my 2nd language students would not

make the same mistake! Sorry but couldn't resist it (English teacher)"



Well, if you really are a qualified English teacher as you claim to be, you probably wouldn't resort to picking someone up on their literacy levels on an internet forum. Especially when you look at your own use of punctuation and interpretation. I counted five mistakes in your post above - and Msg 3 on the direct flights thread is a bit iffy too.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 23:21

Oh dear,



Why does it always have to decend to these levels?



wyn

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 23:29

Pike, as I'm in a generous mood, I shall guide you to message 8.



I'll repeat, your views are not 'alternative', they are the views of Greek Cypriots. If you go on the Cyprus forum (Greek Cypriot dominated), you shall see your views are two a penny, hardly alternative.



I don't believe for a minute you have any Turkish Cypriot friends and if by some small chance you do (and I'm wrong), they would feel betrayed and hurt to read the stuff you say about them ie TRNC/Turkish Cypriots.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 23:38

Should of course be descend.



wyn

McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 23:41

Wyn,



How could you stoop so low?



MC

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/06/2008 23:46

typing error......too keyed up!

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 01:39

hi guys

since i have been away it looks like a lot of feathers have been rustled fro certain memebrs

now firstly how can you tell the x amount of turkish settlers to go back to the mainland when the generation of familes have intergrated in to turkish cypriots, its like saying to the many brits who over the years have gained their dual citizenship to pack up and get lost back to the u.k or even in the u.k telling all the migrants from the ex empire from the 50's up to present day to go and f off back to their own country!!!!

a lot of these turkish mainlanders or karasakal (blackbeard) were labours, tradesman etc etc not to boost the population by sneaky means but to help build north cyprus and quite to the contary wot some people are saying they did not force turkish cypriots to think and act like mainlanders if you really want to know you have to look back further in history to the otoman empire in where turkish mainland lifestyle and culture and language was implemented as with other turkic countries

another fact that people have not even mentioned that the south before joining the e.u automatically used to give citizenship to any greek mainlander and his family who served the army in the south, which is not the case with turkish mainlanders serving their service in the north also anyone who comes to the north from the mainland are only allowed to stay 3months and in the south they can stay as long as they want so no one can actually say turkey are trying to over poplutate the north past and present with their people

so how can the south government say if any further talks progress they will only alow certain amount settlers stay in cyprus to me this is a blatant human right discrimantion how will you pick on who stays or who goes!!!!

another thing that makes me laugh the southern government and most of their politicans and civil servants all stem from greece and the old government including papdaoplous was a mainland eoka memebr!!!

so please answer me this how can you say to the turkish settlers to go back cos they dont want interferance from the mainland but on the other hand their are thousands of greek mainlanders living in the south from the 60's up to present day

so i will say to people before they comment on such subjects to actually go and learn both sides of the coin in everthing north/south from politics to everyday life then you will finally be able to post accurate threads on what they have learned

warm regards

ukturk

livethedream


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 09:20

Welcome back ukturk - voice of reason, again!



ltd

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:28

Great post Erkan.

Agree wholeheartedly that the GC's are wrong to want to send the Turkish settlers back. In fact I think by openly saying so, they somewhat weaken their position. I am sure many EU liberal MP's are unlikely to be comfortble with this stance.



I didn't know that Paps and some of the cabinet originated from Greece. Very intersting. That probably goes some way in explaining their intransigent stance. At least Christofias has more credibility originating from Kyrenia.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:41

ilovecyprus,



Papadopoulos does not originate from Greece and was born in Nicosia, Cyprus. Maybe you are thinking of George Grivas who, although a founder of EOKA and member of the Greek army, was also a native Cypriot (born in Trikomo/Iskele).



Hope this helps. ;)

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:53

Susanne



My whole point for going to the TRNC was to find myself some Turkish settler slaves. I am surprised as to how compliant and amenable they are.



Serouisly though I absolutely believe in reciprocal relationships. My neighbour unprompted by me offered to help. I declined her offer but she insisted on helping. If I had forcefully declined her offer she would have been offended and rejected so gratefully I accepted her invitation. I have since reciprocated. Susanne, this is how relationships are built. She simply wanted me to feel welcome and to establish a relationship with me. I wanted to do the same.



I was bought up in North London. Half of my school were from former British colonies. I am very used to mixing with other races. In fact a number of my significant relationships have been with people of another creed.

Whilst I am fully aware of the benfits of diversity, be that economically, spiritually, culturally etc, I do share some fears that there is always the danger that a host nations values and culture can be dismantled to embrace a more multi cultural view. It is one of those polarities which is difficult to manage not necessarily a problem to be solved.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 11:56

Thanks for correcting me PtPike. It does help

but-n-ben


Joined: 09/06/2008
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 12:44

Susanne & Ptepike are going to hijack every one of the posts made on this subject or similar subjects so it is a waste of time even to respond, we all know where their sympathies lie but there are quizzlings everywhere

Let them have their deluded ideas & ideals

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 13:02

but-n-ben QUOTE:



"...there are quizzlings everywhere..."



Is that someone who likes a quiz? It is a bit of a quiz, considering how little some people seem to actually know about the facts in Cyprus. But hey, let's hear what you've got to contribute to the debate about settlers. So far you've offered nothing.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 13:07

msge 9

'As a result, Turkish Cypriot language and culture has been eroded and the demographics of their own country changed illegally'



PtePike



From what I can recall this is the first time I have seen you state that you recognise the TC's as having their own country. That's very interesting. What has caused you to change your mind?



I would be very interested in your views on TC culture. I too would not want it eroded. In what specific and precise ways has the TC culture and language changed over the last 50 Years? I think it would be fair to go back 50 years as we can see both the GC and Turkish mainland influences on TC culture.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 13:17

Could you also include demographics in your analysis

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 13:47

PtePike



You always quote in your posts " You don't know me and all the work I have done."

Why don't you ever come out and say who you are what have you done?

Instead of trying to be all secretive and making your slimy comments.



Be honest man. Have the ba..s and don't be afraid to explain who you are what you know so everyone can appreciate your opinions.



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 13:51

ilc,



The country that the TCs have is Cyprus. Always has been and always will be.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 13:54

Dy1259 , ilovecyprus, Ukturk



Well said. I agree with all your comments.

The world is an ever changing place.



Biker.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 14:12

hi mark

i worded it wrong papadoplous did not originate from greece but he was pro greek with his hellanistic views and he was one of the leading figures in the peka which was the politcal side of the eoka party which was started firstly to banish the brits from cyprus and to join together with their brothers and sisters in greece and grivas was also a greek cypriot but served in the greek army and was also part of the eoka but he was the one who started eoka b which was more right wing and wanted even more close ties with greece which stated enonis and this group was classed as a terrorist group even by britain at the time

but back to my original comments we cant say that only one side tried to bring a influx of mainlanders in these times and its wrong of the south to say this and try and keep a cap on this because they have a equal amount mainlanders living in the south and like what i said they offered greeks citizenship and no visa requriements to enter the south

regards

ukturk

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 14:41

Erkan,



It's a pity that Mr Talat does not have you beside with him when the meetings with the GC side to try and seek a possible resolution. My parents country has recently reached agreement that power sharing and human rights go hand in hand. still a few old donkeys not happy,but no killing anymore and the new generations will be able to hopefully find trust and intergrate more.



Easier said than done on the Island of Cyprus I know.



Keep up the GREAT work.



Tiggy

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 14:49

Politics

Poli - more than one

tics - blood sucking parasites

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 16:30

Biker,



If you moderate your comments from calling a fellow member "slimy" maybe you'll get a more favourable response. I'd be annoyed if someone outperformed me in debate but I do know how to control myself. Keep it civilised, eh?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 16:33

Hi Erkan

No problem mate. I did indeed interpret it wrongly. You didn't actually say Papa was Greek.



cheers biker



Aslan

'The aim of politics is not to make people better or to alleviate their misery: it is to increase the power of another man or group of men against the power of another man or group of men' - Hans Morgenthau, the political theorist.



plus he said



'Our enemies are never as bad as we make them out to be, and we are never as good as we think we are'

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 16:49

ilc,



Where would you like to start? How about the decline of the unique Paphiot Turkish Cypriot dialect over the decades? If you like I could introduce you to a TC gentleman who is an authority on the subject. Fancy a trip us the Karpass? Or we could look at the schooling and TV angles on Cypriot Turkish. It's a big subject area. I've posted a couple of links to give you a taster on the subject of "Cypriotness". The first goes back well before the 50 years you were looking for. It also illustrates how the fascist TC terror group TMT killed those who pushed for this common Cypriot culture. The second piece just came up when I Googled. Quite well-written, I thought.







http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_19990718/ai_n13940629



http://www.virtualict.com/.../Forms%20of%20Cypriotism%20in%20the%20Turkish%20Cypriot%20Community,%20etc.doc

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 16:52

ilc - second link not working. I'll get you more info in due course although there's plenty out there if you look for it.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 17:27

PP



I could not access your second link.



The first artcilcle is interesting but a little out of date. The only reference to culture I can find is in the statement:



"The Turkish Cypriots are vastly outnumbered by Anatolian settlers occupying abandoned Greek Cypriot properties, and 35,000 Turkish troops. This homogenising effect has eroded Cypriot culture and heritage. Emigration is a major problem."



The author has made a generalised comment but has not supplied specifics.



I infer that the author recognises a cypriot culture and does not see a difference between Turkish and Greek Cypriot cultures. I would expect their to be a macro Cypriot culture and a sub micro separate Turkish and Greek Cypriot culture.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 18:11

ilc,



The other article was a surprise to me, as I Googled and there it was staring me in the face - the first time I'd read it since writing it for the Sunday Herald.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
30/06/2008 23:48

think back to the ottoman empire, before british rule the turkish aren't settlers. its the kurdish workers who are settlers.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 00:04

PP

You make plenty mistakes yourself but I have ignored them so far.

I find your tone very insulting. I do not need to prove to you or anyone that

I am a graduate teacher & I fought hard to get my qualifications - unlike some

of you younger ones who simply progress up the ladder.

You are too young to remember most of the atrocities committed during the

11 years of oppression, the EOKA terrorism & openly declared hatred of

Griveas & Sampson. Listen to people who actually lived through these times

(I accept that we don't always type so correctly on emails)

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 00:20

Phylray,



I wrote some weeks ago, that there would be no happiness in debating with Pvt Pyke.



The man has a very negative outlook. What we need right now are right minded people, who are able to fully acknowledge the past, have the strength of personality to forgive (but not forget) the past, and move on to a United Cyprus, in whatever form the leaders can best negotiate.



I believe water will be the catalyst.



My heartfelt wishes to Mr Talat and Mr Christophias. Good luck.



wyn

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 00:53

Thanks Wyn

I think you are right. I'm afraid he comes across as arrogant & discourteous.

I would like to see a United Cyprus, if it is possible, with democratic representation. Even since the Ottoman conquest in 15th century the two

communities lived together more or less peacefully until the last century.

I am supposed to be retired now but keep getting calls to help out in secondary

schools (no easy job now) and tutoring university students, and in between minding grandchildren, Gaelic choir, clarsach (harp) & other

interests I don't really have time to spend on endless fruitless discussions. He must have plenty time to spare!

I look forward to visiting my friends next week in TBV, old & new.

Didn't our lad do well tonight? (Andy Murray)

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 01:26

hi

wynyardman even thou i agree with your view, a lot of people must realise we will never have a balance and agreement to the cyprus problem politiclly or the normal person on the street because the outsiders who are looking in views are important because propaganda rules in this so called game and a lot of expats tend to belive the souths propaganda because they are only the ones that get heard for example the problems started in 74 when turkey so called invaded unless people read and educate themselves not thru the one sided view but the two sides we will never have undrstanding!!!!



pike you might know a bit about cyprus and you are entitled to your view however wrong or right they are or even clouded, but for you to say the turkish cypriot language and culture has changed due to turkey i have to say is wrong because firstly us turkish cypriots (irelavant where we live now) aswell as many other turkic countries all stem from turkey and before that the ottoman empire, and we still have got our own identity the dialect is a bit diffarent to mainland turkish and culture and even certain foods and dishes are not the same

secondly you mention the tmt turkish resistance organization being a fascist terror group!!!! firstly this group which was started by denktas and rıza vuruşkan in 58 was started in response to the eoka and the eoka b terror acts on turkish cypriots if there was no problems then this group would have never started!!!!!

a lot of propaganda has been said about this group like killing their own people and innocently killing greek cypriot civillians this has never been proven and was only broadcasted by the republic of cyprus (greek cypriot) remember the british who was in cyprus had put a £10000 reward on some of the eoka members and also the whole of the eoka b not on the tmt, all they did was help protect their people from being executed and also lead them to saftey of the enclaves where they could be safe and yes they belived in taksim (partion) well would you not belive in it if your family and friends are getting killed or would you prefer the turkish cypriots to have open arms and welcome the eoka to kill them because they had their own agenda enosis (the whole of cyprus in union with greece) they also protected one of the important enclaves erenkoy in 64 when grivas and his greek cypriot guards and greek mainland army attacked trying to wipe out the turkish cypriots and they managed to hold them till turkey intervined to help, till a ceasefire was brokerd and the unficyp forces were in control, so if it was not for the tmt a lot more would have died at the hands of the eoka

ukturk

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 11:53

Hi Erkan,



Many Turkish Cypriots share my views about the gradual loss of their culture by mainland "Turkification". Here's the latest on the subject from the teachers' leaders in the TRNC:



Recent developments of the Cyprus Problem:



Preceding the military intervention of 1974, The Turkish Cypriot community situated within the north of Cyprus was to eventually confront political dilemmas with the ultra-nationalist political factions within Turkey. These ultra-nationalist political groups organised and adopted the transfer of population from the less educated regions of southeast Turkey with the aim of dominating and eventually overcoming true Turkish Cypriot culture and identity. The organised civil society within northern Cyprus had eventually joined forces with one another to organise campaigns, rallies, strikes and all other forms of endeavour for human rights with the hope of acquiring independence from the “deep state” administration which had openly engineered the ultra-nationalist activity within northern Cyprus. The struggle of Turkish Cypriot organised civil society within northern Cyprus had developed to take shape of a struggle for peace and a viable political solution for all Cypriots. The desired necessity for concrete peace, a viable political solution and joint E.U. accession was also a remedy to assist in acquiring independence for Turkish Cypriots from ultra-nationalist intervention from the deep state administration.



When Turkish Cypriots were asked whether they preferred a joint Cypriot administration accompanied with joint E.U. accession, an overwhelming majority of Turkish Cypriots voted in favour of the U.N. Cyprus Peace Plan prepared by General Secretary Mr. Kofi Annan –(the plan commonly referred to as the Annan Plan). What renders this Turkish Cypriot vote of confidence so overwhelming is that despite the antidemocratic interventions imposed upon their true political will, a 65 percent majority of the Turkish Cypriots voted in favour of this important diplomatic pre-requisite of good-will for E.U. accession.



These antidemocratic interventions include: -



With the fake tears of a “crocodile”, both representatives of the negotiations of the Annan Plan – (Mr. Popadopoulos and Mr. Denktash) ironically urged their citizens to vote against the Annan Plan. Fortunately for the Turkish Cypriots, Prime Minister Mr. Mehmet Ali Talat has replaced the representation supposedly provided by Mr. Denktash.



With their habitual fanatic extremist aggression, several pro-nationalist political leaders and their hostile accomplices intervened with the true political will of the Turkish Cypriots. Whilst these pro-nationalist political leaders arrogantly campaigned for ultra nationalist idealism and chauvinism, their fanatic terrorist accomplices insulted, bullied, beaten and even knifed several innocent Turkish Cypriot citizens.

· A deliberate mass transfer of population from the more rural areas of South East Turkey had been conducted for several years by Mr. Denktash and his status quo with the intention to: -



i.) Out number the true political will of the Turkish Cypriot population

ii.) To influence and thus in turn manipulate and eventually dominate Turkish Cypriot culture.



SOURCE:



http://www.ktos.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8&Itemid=12

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 12:10

Phylray,



You haven't ignored "mistakes" I have made. In fact you made an issue of my Gaelic and French. When I asked you what I said was wrong, you never replied. I'm still waiting to hear from you. You then tried to humiliate another member by pointing out mistakes in their English, adding that you were a teacher of English. However, what kind of English teacher would make mistakes like these:







"Sue

A few hours after the borders were 'opened' a strange language was heard

in the north - some said it was like Italian. It was Greek & they were over here shopping for bargains - & there are many. Soon, menus started to appear in

Greek as well as English. Many TC's still understand/speak Greek but how many GC's will you find who speak one word of Turkish? Personally, I haven't

bought anything in the south as I can get all I want in the north, & anything else I bring from U.K. I have friends who also lost their homes in the South & can never go back."



Poor punctuation and the use of the ampersand as a conjunction instead of "and". Worst of all, you use the possessive for a plural (TC's GC's) - which most people are taught at primary school.



Every time you point a finger at someone, you point three at yourself. That's why I had my doubts about any GTCS registration.



With respect,



Pikey

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 12:42

PtePike,



I feel the vast majority of the forum users are pointing TWO fingers at you.

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 13:16

There are a few fundamental differences in the TC's and GC's culture.



1, Turkish Cypriots drink Turkish coffee, Greek Cypriots drink Cypriot coffee

2, Turkish Cypriots eat Turkish delight, Greek Cypriots eat Cypriot delight

3, TC's think Mousakka is a Turkish dish, GC's think its a Greek dish

4, TC's know their Hellim Cheese is superior, GC's think theirs is





I think it would be for the best if the leaders of both sides agreed to iron out these fundamental issues and then we could all live happily side by side!!

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 13:37

Tiggy

Well said.



PetittePike

"Many Turkish Cypriots share my views about the gradual loss of their culture by mainland "Turkification".



Your above comments is utter rubbish as All the Turkish people who live in Cyprus consider themselves Turkish first then Cypriot (meaning who live in Cyprus).

This nonsense word of Turkification is not shared by any of the Turkish people who live on this island.

Same as the Greek people who live in Turkey consider themselves as Greek.



Biker

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 14:11

hi pike

i dont know what turkish cypriots you have spoken too, but i can assure you coming from a turkish cypriot that my family, friends and all people i know and have spoken too dont feel one bit that we have lost our culture to tukishness because at the end of the day we are turks from cyprus hence the name Turkish Cypriots and like i said turkish cypriots still have their own pratices and culture things like food some foods they have not even heard of in turkey even words and dialect is diffarent, if anything turkish cypriots have more leaned towards greek cypriot culture vica versa most words are the same, food is the same, certain customs are the same

now you go on about the anan plan yes you are right the turkish cypriots did agree to it mainly because they were desperate for change they have had enuf of embargoes, lack of money, not being reconised and desperate people do desperate things you ask any turkish cypriot the same question now belive you me you will get a diffarent answer!!!!

and yes denktas did urge his people to think before saying yes because he knew aswell as many other people north cyprus had much more to loose than the south and its people did if the anan plan went thru, once again people were desperate they said yes irrespective of talat taking over, where on the other hand papdoplous dictated to his people to say no!!! and what was their prize for saying no e.u inclusion which gives the south more of the upper hand poltically (so they think) can you honestly say this is right or even fair??

now that i have given the view of a turkish cypriot who knows and has spoken to many can you see where we are coming from!!!! because the basis of discussion is respecting and understanding the view of the person you are discussing with

i gave you a explantion on the tmt group but you seem to not have replied back to me on this maybe you might have got it wrong from reading the wrong info in saying they were a fascist group and killers where in fact they protected the enclaves where the turkish cypriots fled too and they would not even have been formed if the eoka did not go around killing turkish cypriots aswell as brits (which was one of the main reasons why the party was formed) and in the end they was even killing greek cypriots that supported markarios

ukturk

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 16:34

Tiggy,



"Yeah, intelligent input, darlin', why don't you just have another beer then?" Good lyric.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 16:57

Hi Erkan,



The TCs I've spoken to embrace about three generations and cover most of the administrative districts of Cyprus. It was done as research. Not all but many of them were vocal in their concerns about the future of their culture as a result of the influx of Anatolians. Some pointed out how serious an issue the survival of the TC people as a distinct community was, considering more TCs live overseas than in Cyprus itself. Mass emigration and the brain drain has meant a serious lack of talent to build for the future. So although your circle may not be too concerned about their cultural future, I would take serious note when the heads of the TRNC teachers union speak out on exactly the same issue I am. These are educated, moderate people who should be listened to over the nationalists and chauvanists (on both sides) who have brought war and division to Cyprus.



As for the TMT, I think they did more than just protect the enclaves although they did a good job of that, albeit under mainland Turkish control. They were set up to counter the EOKA, but what both groups had in common was a policy of assassinating their own people on simple suspicion of collaboration, informing etc. The Volkan/TMT relationship could be seen as similar to IRA/Sinn Fein. Freedom fighters to their own supporters but terrorists and murderers in the eyes of the law. But one day everyone has to move on and embrace their former enemies. That's why we should be listening to the voices of progress and reason like the Kibris teachers union, and not the nationalists who will always hate the other side just because of their ethnicity.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 18:05

Pikey, Please do not call me your darlin, as I am straight.



You seemed to be camped on this forum lately and in MY opinion you are deliberate in your intentions to annoy people with your one sided views and insults to persons.



All on this forum have the right to make comments but I feel yours are calculated and meant to stir up further hatred.



You must have plenty of time on your hands to be on this thing most of the day and night.



I make one requeest to you. Please put all your details (real ones) on the members information. I suppose I will be getting a smart arsed reply from you regarding little input to the original subject.



Apologies to any other members (real ones) ......nuff said.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 18:28

Tiggy,



Feel free to contribute to the debate without making personal comments. If you're unable to have a civilised exchange of views - perhaps one where you could show your own knowledge and opinions about the demographics of Cyprus - then please don't take your frustration out on me. You can see the title and topic of this thread. There may be other threads you could join in and feel more comfortable with.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 19:24

'Brain drain' from North Cyprus. Yet more insults from you aimed at Turkish Cypriots in the TRNC. You're saying TCs in the TRNC are dim? Well, tell that to your TCs 'friends' and everyone Turkish Cypriot on these forums living in the TRNC. You seem to have a very simplistic view of TCs/TRNC.



The apostrophe can also be used for a contraction eg. words shortened/letters omitted. Both ways are correct: TCs/TC's. Get your facts straight! That's right you DON'T.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 19:34

dy1259,



The expression "brain drain" is well known in demographics all over the world. It's ludicrous to suggest it's insulting. if it offends you personally, then the answer for that lies within you.



As for the apostrophe, I'm afraid you're wide of the mark again. It should NEVER be used to indicate plural e.g. TC's/GC's. So I'm afraid my facts are right.



Back on topic...

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 20:08

It isn't necessary to use, however, if a person chooses to use it to indicate missing letters from a word it is not strictly incorrect eg Turkish Cypriots-all letters missing except TC and s.



I know perfectly well what 'brain drain' means, unfortunately, your motive for using it is entirely to denigrate the TRNC and TCs.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 20:18

Correction: Cypriots-all letters missing except C and s.



Sorry all, off topic.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 20:20

Pvt Pike,



Yet again the corrosive stench of "Scaramanger"



I have tried to stay out of this posting, because I saw earlier on, that there would be no happiness in debating with a guy with such a corrosive and destructive personality. You very cleverly draw them in, only to change your viewpoint, to try to destroy them.



You invite Tiggy to move to another board (slightly arrogant) Why don't you?



Let me help you. Because you have been banned from most of them Why do you post under so many different names. Because you can carry on with your destructive campaign, until

your modus operandi becomes obvious, then you are thrown off.



Now then Campbell.......if people only read back on your postings, how many have refused to continue to debate with you? Certainly the decent people who fight for peace and happiness of ALL Cypriot people. The eventually saw through you, much as I did many many postings ago.



I would like to summarise what I believe is the feelings of the majority of the members of this board..



They think that the Turks had a very rough deal, overwhelmed by the Greek highly polished

and professional , propoganda machine.

They wish well to Mr Talat and Mr Christophias, in their difficult task.

They try to bridge the differences between TCs and GCs., whilst acknowledging their pain.

They beg for forgiveness for past actions, and appeal for both sides to move on.

They long for peace on this troubled island,and for happiness and security for all.

And finally, I think investments they made, mostly in good faith, are the least of their considerations.......Campbell ..if you must do something.......pray for peace for all!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 20:37

HI ALL

im afraid i have to agree with you wyn ,there just doesn,t seem to be any

balance in his postings he says there is (pte pike ) and i do want too believe

him ,but up to now i haven,t seen any yet. perhaps he just doesn,t understand

turkish people.







peace to the trnc and its people

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 20:58

Wyn,



"the corrosive stench of "Scaramanger""



Why do you resort to personal attacks instead of intelligent debate? Are you just back from the pub? And I invited Tiggy to try another thread, NOT another board. I suggest you read what the TRNC teachers' leaders say about this subject. You will see they agree with what I am saying. Or maybe Turkish Cypriot teachers have a "corrosive stench" as well.





Recent developments of the Cyprus Problem:



Preceding the military intervention of 1974, The Turkish Cypriot community situated within the north of Cyprus was to eventually confront political dilemmas with the ultra-nationalist political factions within Turkey. These ultra-nationalist political groups organised and adopted the transfer of population from the less educated regions of southeast Turkey with the aim of dominating and eventually overcoming true Turkish Cypriot culture and identity. The organised civil society within northern Cyprus had eventually joined forces with one another to organise campaigns, rallies, strikes and all other forms of endeavour for human rights with the hope of acquiring independence from the “deep state” administration which had openly engineered the ultra-nationalist activity within northern Cyprus. The struggle of Turkish Cypriot organised civil society within northern Cyprus had developed to take shape of a struggle for peace and a viable political solution for all Cypriots. The desired necessity for concrete peace, a viable political solution and joint E.U. accession was also a remedy to assist in acquiring independence for Turkish Cypriots from ultra-nationalist intervention from the deep state administration.





When Turkish Cypriots were asked whether they preferred a joint Cypriot administration accompanied with joint E.U. accession, an overwhelming majority of Turkish Cypriots voted in favour of the U.N. Cyprus Peace Plan prepared by General Secretary Mr. Kofi Annan –(the plan commonly referred to as the Annan Plan). What renders this Turkish Cypriot vote of confidence so overwhelming is that despite the antidemocratic interventions imposed upon their true political will, a 65 percent majority of the Turkish Cypriots voted in favour of this important diplomatic pre-requisite of good-will for E.U. accession.



These antidemocratic interventions include: -



With the fake tears of a “crocodile”, both representatives of the negotiations of the Annan Plan – (Mr. Popadopoulos and Mr. Denktash) ironically urged their citizens to vote against the Annan Plan. Fortunately for the Turkish Cypriots, Prime Minister Mr. Mehmet Ali Talat has replaced the representation supposedly provided by Mr. Denktash.



With their habitual fanatic extremist aggression, several pro-nationalist political leaders and their hostile accomplices intervened with the true political will of the Turkish Cypriots. Whilst these pro-nationalist political leaders arrogantly campaigned for ultra nationalist idealism and chauvinism, their fanatic terrorist accomplices insulted, bullied, beaten and even knifed several innocent Turkish Cypriot citizens.



A deliberate mass transfer of population from the more rural areas of South East Turkey had been conducted for several years by Mr. Denktash and his status quo with the intention to: -





i.) Out number the true political will of the Turkish Cypriot population





ii.) To influence and thus in turn manipulate and eventually dominate Turkish Cypriot culture.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 21:04

Musin,



There's a difference between Turkish and Turkish Cypriot people. That's what the thread is about. Do you understand anything or have any views on the subject of demographics? Maybe contributing to debate would be more constructive than attacking another board member. Note the Kibris teachers' leaders - who actually live and work in Cyprus and not London like you - seem to be saying the same thing as me. Are they wrong as well?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 21:43

Campbell. I do not make personal attacks like "have you just come back from the pub." Not one of my everyday habits. Toxic stench of Scaramanger. Who is that? Wasn't it a baddie in a James Bond movie?



My comments have been echoed by a number of members who have withdrawn from debating with you. Likewise on other boards, where you have been banned.



I am sorry if I am positive, with an optomistic outlook, but The people of Cyprus need all the encouragement that they can get at this critical time. It is PEACE they need, not someone beating the drum of emnity, ever louder!



Just my (very sober!) view.



wynyardman

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 21:52

pte

pike

please refrain from telling certain cypriots about living in london ,i have homes

in england , north and south cyprus,majority of my very large family reside

in the trnc and quite a few are teachers and a couple are head teachers

yes we know there are differences between turkish mainland and turkish

cypriots, so make your point .the thread is about ( why should we respect turkish settlers in trnc) .so far as i understand from your postings you must

of conducted a vast amount of surveys regarding turkish cypriots ,you know more about us then we do ourselves or so it seems. my understanding of

you is ,you just think you do however you know nothing about turkish cypriots

only what you read . take some time out and get too know some.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 22:24

Wyn,



If you can't keep it civilised then ignore my posts - as you said you would before. Or actually attempt to contribute to the subject being discussed.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 22:28

Musin,



Good to see you've taken it on. Out of interest, how come you have homes in the south and north? Didn't TC property kocans have to be surrendered to the TRNC government before being allocated a home in the north? Or did you buy in the south after 1974? Just curious.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 23:05

hi guys

i must say all of you guys i know on this forum have fallen hook line and sinker!!

now pike you go on about people being personal and you are doing the same i actually object to you making presumptions about my personal circle of people, how do you know what my family, friends and people know and have spoken too are thinking, these people are turkish cypriots you think they dont care about what has happened and is happing to their country, we are not outsiders looking in with a certain view

i presume you are british but not sure if you live in the south/north or the u.k dont take this personal but you will never ever get a grasp or fathom or even understand how turkish cypriots feel or what they went through and me being conservtive greek cypriots too, so you can do all the reading and do all the talking to cypriots you want it by all means have your view and post but it dont make any diffrence we as turkish cypriots know what went on and what is going on aswell as the greek cypriots



now let me explain why some cypriots might think we are having a influx of turks from the mainland, at the end of the day if we use a bit of common sense turkey is the only country that reconises north cyprus it would be fair to say that its understandable why their is the influx, secondly if it was not for some of the turks from mainland being their the economy would suffer even thou they are getting rich they are supporting the economy thru employment and many more sectors

now you say about the mass exodus of cypriots form the island is not right because north cyprus is suffering i agree but do you think its right or fair that these people are foced to move out because of these unhumain restrictions and embargos placed on them for just being turksih cypriots and nothing else!!!



teachers have a valid point because these are educated people but it dont stop them taking their wages from turkey in the form of grants and aid that is given to this sector aswell as many others!!! go and speak to a broad range of people older generation especially from the man in the bank to the man on the street and then you will get a better understanding on what turkish people think on the matter (i think we are still discussing turkish settlers)



im relived you made your comments about the tmt that you might Think (your words) they did more, you actually dont know, if this group was any way terrosits like what you say why is it that the british empire have certain amounts of reward for the heads of some eoka members and the whole of the eoka b party and not the tmt what you are saying about the volkan and tmt relationship reminding you like the ira/sinn fein so what does the eoka and b party and their ties with greece and the ethnic cleansing barbaric enonis views remind you off then???

i must say for a person who knows a bit about cyprus and especially turkish cypriots you are quite anti turkish cypriot you talk about all the bad what turkey has and is doing aswell turkish cypriots and you havent said or gone into detail on greece and south cypriots what they have done over the years

i know we must forgive and forget (very hard for me to do this) and both sides suffered but how can we move on when people only have a one sided view



for me a person who knows what they are talking about can openly sit down and discuss both sides not just bang on about all the wrongs what one side has done or is doing that the kind of discussions i like to take part in

reagrds to all

ukturk

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/07/2008 23:51

ukturk,



If people have fallen as you say "hook line and sinker" that may be because they can't put across their own argument without being angry and petulant. I make no assumptions of your circle apart from what you told me - that they don't feel their culture is under threat. Other Turkish Cypriots don't agree. Everyone has their own opinion and that extends beyond the confines of this BB. You don't need to explain about the economics of the settlers. I know why Turkey brought them in - and the international resilutions saying it was illegal. As for the brain drain, you can't blame the exodus on sanctions. Many of the most talented TCs left because they could see no future in north Cyprus with its lack of opportunities and the way it was being run. I've already spoken to a broad range of people including those old enough to remember 1963 and 1974.



Moving to TMT, I'm not sure what you mean about the Brits having a bounty on EOKA leaders but not TMT. The TMT was formed in 1957 but was mostly active after 1963 - and the British left Cyprus in 1960. Before then, the Brits used TCs to fight EOKA. As far as I'm concerned each side in Cyprus is equally responsible for the situation today. The Greek Cypriots/Greece certainly started the trouble, but the Turkish Cypriots/Turkey are responsible for prolonging it as much as they are. Everything I've had published about Cyprus has been neutral and impartial. I have no axe to grind with either side. I'm disappointed but not surprised at the intolerance to alternative views on this BB. What is obvious is some people simply cannot take any suggestion of failings on their own side, preferring instead to play the blame game.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 00:09

pte pike

guess what the most talented turkish cypriots are now returning back home

becouse they see no future in britain its broken and i think people are leaving

in droves .even with the sanctions cyprus is a better option thanks to turkey .





musin

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 01:00

hi pike

at last you have come out and stated how you feel rather than quote other peoples views, its good to hear you have no axe to grind because you are not actually in a postion to do so and it is good you reconise that greece and the south started all this trouble but you are wrong in saying turkish cypriots prolonged it because like you know when the first bit of trouble started turks were the first to sign any peace treaty and the reason why trouble flared up again is because markarios changed the constution in the way of the 13 points complety taking away the rights of turkish cypriots politcians and the man on the streets then fast forward to 2004 when the north said yes to the anan plan full well knowing they were giving away a lot of their rights away they did so but the south said no cos they was not getting all the pie now in my eyes i cant see this as turkish cypriots or turkey prolonging it do you???

belive you me i did not explain the economics of the settles otherwise i would have written a 5 page essay on it for you



back to my circle they do feel their culture is under threat in the way of losing their identies but not through turkishness but thru being classed as cypriots and cypriots are always known as greek cypriots we were always and will always be called Turkish Cypriots what ever the outcome thru resoultions or indepdance at the end of the day most poeple can forgive (not sure about forget) but its all about trust and sorry to say a high percentage do not trust due to past experiances

what i mean about the bounty's is when eoka started their campaign in 1955 killing brits and turks the british empire deemed certain parts of the party as terrorists and even thou cyprus gained its independance in 1960 it did not stop britain taking a role aswell as having army bases in cyprus they had a aggrement in the respect of the treaty of guarantee to uphold the peace, actually the tmt party was formed in 1958 and was active from this date up until 1974 the reason you say most active in 63/64 is becasue this is when the eoka and b gained momentium and like i said cos britain still had a active role they did not mention about the tmt party being terrorists and even thou they was not theie dont you think they had undercover ops and informers in and around cyprus after they left

people would have to have blinkers on not to realise their was failings on both sides otherwise we would not be hear discussing them and im not pushing my view on the blame game (i have my view on that) but in my view like you said prolonging the sitation is coming from the south and it has taken this many years for them to come to the table to discuss a outcome and if they had any sort of intent they would soften the embargos placed on them and this is one of the reasons why cypriots left aswell as them going cos they feared for the saftey

you are right you should not be surprised nor disappointed with peoples response to your posts even thou you say you are neutral and impartial you defo dont come accross like that, do you actually have any other insight in to cyprus other than what happend in the past with all the troubles,lets try and pick out some postives rather than the negatives then some people wont get their backs up to your posts

go on pike say something nice and surprise the forum members!!!! lol

ukturk



p.s the good thing is the people who left cyprus from the 50's 60's and 70's are all coming back and investing their money back into the economy which in my eyes is a very good thing so the north just dont rely on turkey and tourism (look what tourism has done for the south its ruined)

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 09:48

Pvt Pike,



I strongly resent your comment about me keeping things civilised, Anyone reading my postings can see a consistent appeal to all for civilised behavoir.



You seem to think argument (cleverly disguised as debate) is the way forward. I take the view that understanding and forgiveness, are the key to the way forward.



Do you not see that Brabus and Phylray, decent people (to name but two) have seen the futility of trying to debate with you. As indeed did I. We can't all be wrong! You have been banned from other boards. Are they all wrong?



Pvt Pike........Mr Mugabe insists that he is right, and the rest of the world are wrong!



Your comments on people who have bought property in The TRNC, in good faith are nothing short of disgraceful. Your standard fall back, on questioning whether people who post at variance with your views, have just come out of the pub, speaks volumes of your desire to

engage in meaningful debate.



In short Pvt Pike (did you ever serve in the armed forces?)I find your attitude an annoyance

to the soul, and conterproductive to the interests of the many decent people who post on this board who seek a peaceful and honourable settlement to the emnity that permeats the Cyprus Problem.



I shall take my own advice therefore, and stay well away from you!.



wynyardman

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 11:34

Musin,



If people don't like it in the UK they're free to return to wherever they come from, not just Cyprus. Unfortunately for the Turkish Cypriots, the net emigrations of skilled and educated people has had a negative effect on their part of the country.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 12:11

PP,



I will have to decline your suggestion to move to another thread.



How about my suggestion of putting your info on the members info?



Also is wyn correct in that you have been removed from several forums and you use differnet names?



Patrick. (and your name is ?)

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 12:11

Ukturk,



I think people should always show other evidence rather than their own views as a way to back up the facts. That's the only way to be taken seriously as someone who might know something about what he's talking about. Yes, the GCs kicked it off but it's wrong IMO to say the Turkish side didn't prolong the deadlock. Denktas was rightly regarded as a leader who approached the negotiating table in bad faith and with no sincere wish for a settlement. For that reason he was pushed aside by his own people and replaced by a more moderate leader in the shape of Talat. Naturally, the GC side being equally damaging to their own people elected Papadopous, a right-wing hard-liner just at the time when Clerides was willing to compromise. And for the GCs to reject Annan was foolish beyond belief and evidence of the gullibility of the people in the face of troublemaking Orthodox bishops and croc tears. I've already maintained we should concentrate on bashing the bishops.



I'm surprised you say you know people who fear losing their identities through being classed as Cypriots before Turks. Nearly every TC I've met over almost 15 years is proud of the fact they are sons and daughters of the island first and not a so-called motherland. You only have to see the strength of the "This Nation is Ours" platform and the views of the TC teachers to back up what I'm saying. I'm not here to make platitudes. If someone says something that is iffy or not based on the facts I will challenge them with facts which makes some people petulant and angry. I think the difficulty is many people don't have a handle on all the facts and have only heard what's been told to them by one side. The sad lack of contact between both communuties compounds this among people who should know better. It has no bearing on the views of some expats and foreigners who sometime display high levels of ignorance and a lack of background knowledge. The huge numbers who have fallen victim to scams in the TRNC by not using common sense proves the ignorance at large.



Back to the settlers, if the latest news on the peace talks is to be believed then one common identity and sovereignty will be shared by all the people of Cyprus. If this chance of peace means letting most of the settlers stay, then I'm all for it. Is that positive enough?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 12:17

Tiggy,



Do you think I would provide my personal details to someone who describes himself as a "virgin convertor"? I can see why you are reluctent to get into intelligent debate.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 12:21

Wyn,



You've said about three times now that you were going to leave the thread but you keep coming back. Maybe if you show some consistancy I could take you seriously and not think that somehow you just can't get enough of me.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 12:51

ptepike or ????????? enough enough , you think people cant get enough of you ! { in your dreams } i think people have had too much of you and your interpretation of events . this topic has been debated by the indigenous peoples of the land that have a far higher knowledge than you , and the events and consequences have been with them ever since , so why you think you have the right to comment or argue on their history is beyond me , you have no right at all ,



to all ,

i for one have had enough of this person whoever he or she is , i will not respond from this post onwards to any further posts this person makes , and urge people to do the same , this person clearly needs this kind of interaction in his life as he probably has very little else .

regards , simbas

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 12:52

Here we go again!



wyn

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 12:58

At least my details are for all to see.



you are just a sad and lonely attention seeker.



Move on.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 13:02

Simbas,



Chill my friend.



You seem to at last have joined a list of decent and honourable people.



This has happenned before.! History will no doubt repeat itself.



Take care,



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 14:02

It is good to see some excitment back on a BB.



Yes there has got to be sharing of info etc, that is what these things are for. But sometimes the inane comments and fake niceties get a bit much.



If you do not like what is said on a thread then keep out of it and leave well alone, do not get so uptight and try to argue as you will NEVER win against someone who is so single minded and knowledgable on "their topic".



Oh for the days of unsubtle, ES, MM, johny foreigner et al. I always kept out but always worth a look to have a laugh now and again.



All of these names are single minded individuals who also change their identities if banned from a BB and reemerge under a new name. So, as I said earlier, unless you can stand your ground and know your facts 110% do not bother getting involved and do not try the cheap stunt of "ban him" or whatever it does not work and you are the only looser.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 14:06

hi guys

you all probabley see pike as a bad rash that itches, you know you should not scratch it but you cant help yourselfs!!!! lol lol

trust me there is no point in raising to the bait it wont get you no where with certain people on this forum, the best thing is to reply to peoples comments with you own views because people cant object to them

i must say thou i trust reporters and the media as much as i do politcians Zero!! because at the end of the day the media controls what goes on and all it takes is for a reporter to print a report with his/her personal views and this in turn will be taken as gospel to the lameman on the street and this can be very damageing



pike you misunderstod on what i said, family and friends and come to think all of the population are proud to be a Turkish Cypriot and love cyprus,

but because of past problems a lot of turkish cypriots are very unsure what will happen if cyprus does unify they will loose their turkish cypriot identity, you seem to forget turkish cypriots will always be indebited to the motherland because if they did not come and help ther would be no turkish cypriot race due to ethnic cleansing sorry to say this is something you will never understand!!

its good to hear you have said something postive about the settlers because you as a human being know this is inhumaine to send settlers back to somewhere they have no life and that have migrated and intergrated into cypriots thru 2nd and 3rd generations

ukturk

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 14:16

well wyn , i happen to believe that while i do have thoughts on topics like religion and politics , they are personal and i would'nt dream of pushing them down peoples throats , and for me to comment on nc's history , well i just would not do it out of respect ,and ignorance . i have a property which i love in a country that i love , but i never forget that i am a visitor in their country and therefore i feel i have no right to partake in political debate whatever the topic . but that is only my view

i for one hope we have heard the last of her/him , but i wo'nt hold my breath , have a good day

regards , simbas

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 16:08

Simbas,



You do seem to be one of those who can't stop themselves from getting involved when I'm posting, so there's nothing "in my dreams" about it! I don't think any member has yet proved they have a "higher knowledge" than anyone else - least of all you. You do have the good grace to confess "ignorance" about NC history. So if what I'm saying annoys you because it goes over your head, then just ignore my posts. Simple as that!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 16:11

Tiggy: "At least my details are for all to see."



And as a self-confessed "virgin convertor", so is your credibility.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 16:20

Pike

I get the impression from all these posts that no other member agrees with your biased views. (I may be wrong about one other member but, hey ... maybe that is you as well.)



Does any one agree with Pike on this subject ? Please say so.



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 16:31

ukturk,



Re your first sentence, I agree that some people just "rise to the bait" instead of just giving their views or counter-arguments. Folk can behave like sheep in some situations and develop a herd mentality when confronted with something that scares them or which they can't understand. I've said several times "just ignore me" or "let's hear your views", but some people prefer just getting shouty.



As for news, no professional reporter should put his views in a news story. Comment is free but facts are sacred. You can see for yourself much of the media in Cyprus does not operate that way and instead acts as mouthpieces for the state, political parties and private enterprises. That's why there's so much mistrust and hatred in Cyprus - because the people have not been taught how to think for themselves. People are showing that on this thread.



On the other point, I don't see how anyone can fear losing their TC identity if unification comes. The only plan on the table is for a bizonal, bicommunal federation. So if the TCs are on one side with their leadership and the GCs are on the other side with their leadership, then everyday life and the day to day issues are conducted within one's own community as before. The "single Cypriot identity" thing only applies at international relations levels, so I fail to see how it threatens any individual's identity unless they are pretty insecure about themselves, maybe.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 16:35

Biker,



I think you are a smashing, open-minded witty bloke who clearly understands both sides of the coin and is pushing for more trust and confidence-building between both sides. That is the kind of person Cyprus really needs. I think you could make a go of it over there. Don't waste your talents in London. Let me be the one who writes about the sucesses of this man of vision!



Come on, I'm not all bad am I?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 20:06

What was it that Spike Milligan (now deceased) say of Prince Charles?



Crawling bastard! Hmm!



I offer these lines to the decent hard working , tax paying members of this site, the quiet majority..........with full acknowledgement to Rudyard Kipling.............



If you can stand to hear the words you've spoken.

Twisted by knaves, to make a trap for fools!



Pvt Pike, Rifleman Fisher, Scaramanger, Eric Seans (anagram) Miss Tidio and finally

Mr Campbell Thomas.



Something tells me, that you have "shot" your last bolt, on this site, as soon as the moderators get wise!.



An annoyance to the soul!



wyntardman

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 22:28

Wyn,



You keep saying you will just ignore me, but you don't. Are my views too much for you to resist? Why keep it going without contributing to the debate?

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
02/07/2008 23:39

pike

i agree no pro reporter should print their own personal view in with the story they are covering but in todays society they do like a sublimanal message and its not just in cyprus they do this its all over the world thats the media for you!!!



you talk about bizonal and bicommunal communitys governing themselves but they will have to have some sort of central government for the country and international scene now if the percentage of power is in the souths favour on the international scene and at home the north wont get heard, which we have basically now, two governments governing two diffrent sides one side gets heard and is reconized the other side is not!!!!

but anyway i could talk and discuss everything that is cyprus all day long but you will probabley agree we have gone slightly off the topic so lets just discuss about the settlers (think we have discussed everything about this subject)

regards to all

ukturk

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 00:25

Aslan Merhaba!

I like your posting & would like to add:-

5. Greek Cypriots drink Ouzo - Turkish Cypriots drink Raki

Both say their own is better, naturally! (Personally can't stand either)



Another thing struck me. I have a first name which has come from ancient

Greece, i.e. Phyllis (from Scots gran. an old-fashioned name not usual in our

land) & when I went first to Istanbul to teach English, they told me it was a

Turkish name, but spelt & pronounced slightly differently - Filiz. But, interestingly, both names bear the same meaning, i.e. a green shoot!

I do know that Aslan means lion. I did learn a little Turkish & Arabic

Bir as!

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 01:38

UkTurk

Your postings are always reasonable & informative.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 07:05

Wynyardman



I notice that not only do you allow yourself to be drawn back despite your protestation but now you have sunk out of site by posting on another board.



You either want to be part of the ES discussion or you do not.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 10:23

phpbb3 board.......



Thread Cyprus44.



Read and inwardly digest!



Ceers all.....wyn

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 14:13

"Why we should respect the settlers in TRNC"

I believe this is really the subject we are discussing.



In UK even an illegal immigrant can apply for citizenship after 14 years and they have a right to remain due to time spent in the country.



Anyone who comes to settle in acountry for 30 odd years and integrate with the society should not even be considered as settlers any more.

On top of all that these people share our language, religion, celebrate the same public and religious holidays. They have also helped to advance the country with their craftsmanship and will to work hard.

We have 1000 percent more in common with these people that the GC.

( as some argue that we should integrate with GC to have a cypriot identity. What do we have in common with GC that we do not have in common with Turkish people from Turkey? )



In 1881, at the start of the British rule Greek Cypriots numbered 140,000 and Turkish Cypriots 42,638. (look at the population now)

So it is very clear which side had more settlers added to their population numbers in recent times.



Biker

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 18:39

Good points biker. They have long outlived the term settler

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 21:12

Never a war crime, ethnically cleansing part of a country of its inhabitants, stealing their property and replacing them with illegal immigrants. I'd like to hear what thre usual suspects would say if that happened in Britain.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 23:28

The Greek Cypriots deserved to lose their homes in North Cyprus. They should stop whingeing and accept compensation-even that's too good for them (they could be being compensated for land and houses that were stolen from the TCs).



The GCs should have been satisfied with the 1960 constitution and not caused all the problems in Cyprus. It is a pity their government is recognised in the South and that TRNC/TCs are isolated and embargoed-unjustly so. Why should TCs reunite with people that do not respect them? I hope the reunification talks fail and that partition becomes permanent. Any kind of reunification will be a mistake and distaster for the TCs-it will be the end of them. The greedy Greek Cypriots will find a way to marginalise the TCs and ensure once and for all they become the ethnic minority with no power or political equality in their own country.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
03/07/2008 23:35

Actually the GCs don't deserve any compensation or the return of their so called properties. They've already had their compensation-years of opportunity and prosperity as opposed to years of international isolation and embargoes for the TCs and TRNC.



Good luck to the Turkish 'settlers', may they remain in Cyprus if they wish to.

Tatlisu4me


Joined: 26/01/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 00:21

Donna wrote



Actually the GCs don't deserve any compensation or the return of their so called properties



Donna I would not like it if it was my parents/family that had to give up their homes/property



Yes both sides GC and TC want Compansation Surely ?

Reproman


Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 00:25

WOW - 119 posts! and reached 'HOT' status...not bad for my first thread!



I must say, i was right about it ending in a 'slanging match' (usual suspects all round!)

Disregarding the (too many!) off topic arguments some fair points have been raised.



Firstly the comments about TC's losing their identity:



I do believe there is a feeling among TC's that they are becoming a minority in their own country. With a large influx of main land Turks, Brits and of course the Greeks on the 'other side'. But i dont believe that the TC's are losing there own identity. Evolving maybe, as people do, more westernised prehaps, but certainly always a Turkish cypriot, and that will always be different, even if its only slightly, from a full on TURK.

Anyone who has even been to Turkey can CLEARLY see the difference in Turkish Cypriots and 'full on Turks'



BUT we have to remember, this is the world we live in today, its called GLOBALISATION. No ethnic group will be the same in years to come. As people move more freely about our planet, inter marriages, boarders coming down, people will undoubtedly evolve and im all for it. One love and all that.

And Turkish cypriots are no different, you cant blame main land turks or anyone for that matter, its just the way of the world.



It was also mentioned that TC's, when asked, said they fear they are losing there indentity...well, you go into any UK classroom and you will get the same message! Engish people in ENGLAND feel they are losing their indentity also!

This isnt just a Cyprus issue, this is the new age we live in, Internet, freedom, movement and global opportunities. I mean come on...asking people in a country under 40yrs of embargos, unrecognised internationally and cut off from the world with only turkey as its main support, if they feel their own identity is under threat?...WHAT ANSWERS DID YOU EXPECT!







Now onto something else that has really come to my attention whilst being a member of this forum....PtePike! "Never a war crime, ethnically cleansing part of a country..." etc, trying to keep on topic, this post was about why we should respect the settlers for what they have done to help north cyprus, and not about how or why they got here, and to respect them because after 40 or so years they are now a part of Cyprus and a pawn in this mess as much as TC's and GC's.



BUT, after reading through alot of these treads lately, i believe you only wrote message 119 to stir things up a bit!

For me the mesage you left at number 9 was enough for me to understand that you feel the same as most of us on the tread title, and how we all feel about the 'settlers'.



"You make good points about the settlers. Nobody can blame someone for seeking a better life for himself and his family..." - PtePike. 29/06/2008 12:27



But you then went on to raise other issues unrelated to my thread title, again in order to stir things up a bit! and therby almost instantly making this thread, like many others...all about The People vs PtePike!



Im going to start a new thread tonight....it should be interesting!



So in closing, if i may.....



I think we all agree that the Maiin land Turks were innocent when they came to Cyrpus all them years ago and cannot be pushed to one side when talks about 'sending settlers back' arise. What peoples views are on Why they were put here in the first place is of course up to them, this thread was not about that.



Repro.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 00:57

Tatlisu4me,

I'm talking about the GCs, not your family (unless you have GCyp. connections).



Has it been fair all these years for the TCs to be isolated, embargoed and their human rights ignored by the international community? What is fair for the TCs in comparison to what is fair for the GCs?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 17:48

dy: "The Greek Cypriots deserved to lose their homes in North Cyprus."



Do you consider that to be an intelligent comment? And where were you when they lost their homes?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 17:50

Repro,



Come off it. The settlers being here and how it came about are clealy linked. Ethnic cleansing is a war crime and is linked to the whole issue. We can't be nicey-nicey all the time but we should always be factual as much as possible.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 18:31

Re message 125

In the recent historical and political context of Cyprus, my comment is valid and intelligent. There was no ethnic cleansing, the GCs chose to leave; it has enabled the TCs to live in peace and safety all these years from 1974.



The GCs won't get back the land or houses they claim to be theirs but they most likely will be compensated and be given land/house in return-greedy lot.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 18:31

Pike



When people are moved elsewhere as a result of a conflict so that they are not able to live in their homes, is not called ethnic cleansing.



Ethnic cleansing was done by GC to the TC which was killing all the residents of complete villages including 16 day old babies.



What would you call the act of building houses by Israeli government for Israeli people in the last 60 years in Golan heights ?



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 22:14

Biker,



Both sides GCs and TCs drove the others out of their homes and TR did it on a massive scale in 1974/75.



The Israelis have been doing it for 60 years but now have realised the error of their ways and are preventing illegal settlement on refugee land. That inludes tearing down Jewish homes and evicting the occupants. They also handed back swathes of land to the Palestinians though they have a long way to go. What has Turkey ever given back that it seized?

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 22:28

What have the GCs ever given back that they stole up to 1974 from the TCs? So everyone's about equal then.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 22:45

dy1259,



You should find these sections from a UN report quite interesting. I think I've been quite soft on you.





21. Whilst establishing an independent and sovereign Republic, the Constitution of Cyprus, "unique in its tortuous complexity and in the multiplicity of the safeguards that it provides for the principal minority, ... stands alone among the constitutions of the world" (S.A de Smith, The New Commonwealth and its Constitutions, London, 1964, p. 296). Therefore, it was no surprise that, within less than three years, abuse of safeguards by the Turkish Cypriot leadership led to total unworkability of the Constitution which necessitated the proposals for constitutional amendments submitted by the President of the Republic and which were immediately rejected by the Turkish Government and subsequently by the Turkish Cypriot community.





22. Turkey, in furtherance of its designs based on territorial aggrandizement, instigated the Turkish Cypriot leadership's resort to insurrection against the State, forced the Turkish Cypriot members of the executive, legislature, judiciary and civil service to withdraw from their posts and created military enclaves in Nicosia and other parts of the island. As a result of the foregoing and the intercommunal violence that ensued the Security Council of the United Nations was seized with the situation and by resolution 186 (1964) of 4 March 1964 a peacekeeping force was sent to Cyprus and a mediator appointed. In his report (S/6253-A/6017) the Mediator, Dr. Galo Plaza, criticized the 1960 legal framework and proposed necessary amendments which were again immediately rejected by Turkey, a fact which resulted in serious deterioration of the situation with constant threats by Turkey against the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Cyprus which necessitated a series of United Nations resolutions calling, inter alia, for respect of the sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of Cyprus.





23. The Secretary-General of the United Nations in 1965 described the policy of the Turkish Cypriot leaders in this way:





"The Turkish Cypriot leaders have adhered to a rigid stand against any measures which might involve having members of the two communities live and work together, or which might place Turkish Cypriots in situations where they would have to acknowledge the authority of Government agents. Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots" (S/6426).





Despite this policy, a certain degree of normality gradually returned to Cyprus and by 1974, with the active encouragement of the Government, a large proportion of Turkish Cypriots were living and working alongside their Greek Cypriot fellow citizens.





24. Using as a pretext the coup d'état of 15 July 1974, instigated by the Greek military junta against the Cypriot Government, Turkey invaded the island on 20 July. Forty thousand Turkish troops landed on the island, in violation of the Charter of the United Nations, the Treaties of Guarantee and Alliance and the relevant principles and norms of international law. As a result approximately 37 per cent of the island remains occupied. Forty per cent of the Greek Cypriot population, representing 82 per cent of the population of the occupied area were forcibly expelled. Thousands of people, including civilians, were killed, wounded or ill-treated. Moreover, the whereabouts of hundreds of Greek Cypriots, including women and children and other civilians, many of whom were known to have been captured by the Turkish Army, are still unknown.





25. The

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
04/07/2008 23:24

Quote21. Whilst establishing an independent and sovereign Republic, the Constitution of Cyprus, "unique in its tortuous complexity and in the multiplicity of the safeguards that it provides for the principal minority, ... stands alone among the constitutions of the world" (S.A de Smith, The New Commonwealth and its Constitutions, London, 1964, p. 296). Therefore, it was no surprise that, within less than three years, abuse of safeguards by the Turkish Cypriot leadership led to total unworkability of the Constitution which necessitated the proposals for constitutional amendments submitted by the President of the Republic and which were immediately rejected by the Turkish Government and subsequently by the Turkish Cypriot community. End quote



So because SA de Smith interprets the events in favour of the GCs, he must be correct? Am I to understand that you as a journalist will agree with every opinion/analysis/interpretation/decision that you have read? You can't possibly be a person that agrees with every single political decision made, surely not?



You've presented me with a whole load of decisions and opnions that prove and demonstrate how the GCs lies were heard and the TCs were disbelieved and ignored. Politicians constantly make errors in judgement and also make decisions for the sake of political expediency, convenience and a quiet life. He who shouts loudest and all that.. The TCs were oppressed and inhumanely treated by the GCs. The GCs had the power and money to use for their propaganda machine.



Have you learnt nothing from postings presented by Ukturk, Alasasion, Erolz etc?



Just for the record, I have nothing financial to gain other than what is my birthright ie TC land the GCs didn't manage to steal.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 17:16

Pike

Your quote below taken from your last post.

"The Israelis have been doing it for 60 years but now have realised the error of their ways and are preventing illegal settlement on refugee land"



--------- I am afraid Not exactly true -----

Maybe you should check out this article below.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/may/11/israel



For people who cannot be bothered I will copy some of the pragraphs.



---------------------------------------------------

Jerusalem's city council plans to build three new Jewish settlements on land it occupied in 1967, in contravention of international law, it was announced yesterday. The estates will be built on land that has been earmarked for a future Palestinian state, close to Bethlehem and Ramallah.

International law forbids construction on land acquired by war, but since 1967 Israel has built homes for around 500,000 Israelis in the West Bank and Jerusalem.



Yehoshua Pollak, the chairman of the committee, told Haaretz that up to 10,000 homes could be built in the area of Walaja, between the south-west of Jerusalem and Bethlehem. "If you strengthen Walaja, you strengthen the connection with the Etzion bloc through the tunnel road," he said. The Etzion block is a group of settlements south of Bethlehem which Israel hopes to keep, although its official position is that their future would be discussed in peace negotiations with the Palestinians.

------------------------------------------------

Biker

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 17:25

Pike



If we believe everything that was written by the United Nations, we should have believed that Iraq had Weapons of Mass Destruction too.



As history have shown us it was a pack of lies, was it not (or did you believe that too)?



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 22:51

Biker,



I realise the Israelis are still building and occupying on Arab lands, as I'm pretty much linked to the main news wires 24/7 and have seen it for my own eyes on the ground. What I'm saying is that they have (where it suits them but also where they have said they would) pulled out of huge areas and have removed illegal Jewish settlers from Arab land. When has Turkey ever done anything similar in Cyprus?



I think your most recent posting (134) is the most telling. You are fundementally mistaken. It was not the UN who insisted there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but the US/Bush along with allies UK/Blair. Indeed, the UN had weapons inspectors on the ground who had found nothing and asked for more time to prove it, but they were pushed aside by the US and UK who went to war on the false premise of WMD being there. And yet you accuse ME of not knowing the facts.

phantom


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 23:05

hiya every body i'm a t c and have gc as friends here in uk, cyprus want to have our country back to us cypriots .pte pike you carry on mate

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/07/2008 23:31

BIKER



what does that say about the un (inconsequential)

puppets on a string .

pushed aside by the americans,israelies and anyone else,if they had any

capability they would of stopped the war in iraq.

alas they no power.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 00:01

phantom and susanne,



I'll drink to you both very shortly! Keep the faith - there's more of you than the other lot and Cyprus belongs to YOU.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 12:40

hi guys

firstly phantom (ali) i too have many greek cypriot friends in the u.k but these people realise that it was not all turkey and the north cypriot people's fault thats why we are in this situation, no disrespect but you are old enough to know us turkish cypriots have always wanted peace and to live as cypriots side by side even as far back as when the ottomans ruled cyprus and when they rented cyprus to the british empire we all co exisited together but what was the begining of the end was when some factions of the gc's via the eoka wanted to kick out the brits and to join with greece and did not care who stood in their way brits, turks and even greeks who just wanted to be called cypriots, but again the turkish cypriots wanted peace and when the treaty's was signed everyone thought peace has been reached pollictally and civially and we could all be cypriots again but this changed when markarios basically made us turkish cypriots into second class citizens not even fit to be called cypriots!!! with his 13 point change in the constitution

now whatever people might say turkey this turkey that, if it was not for turkey and president edcevit (god rest his soul) there would not have been any turkish cypriots left not alone to be called cypriots

but that was in the past and we can all try and forgive but cant forget but we must look to the future!!!!



pike im not quite sure on your comments about theres more of you than the other lot what is that supposed to mean? i think you might be a bit mistaken cyprus belongs to all of us cypriots turkish or greeks irrespective of our views and of course not forgetting the expats who are guests to the country

regards

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 13:45

Pike



Exactly the point I wanted to say but you have said it: "but they were pushed aside by the US and UK who went to war on the false premise of WMD being there."



This just goes to prove that UK who is one of the quarantors of the island and Us who is the superpower (biggest supporter of Israel's policies) currently cannot be trusted with their foreign policies.



They act ONLY for their own interest.

That's why there is the status quo in Cyprus because the situation is best for these countries. Really nothing much has changed in the last 34 years. The GC government is recognised as the only government and TC are under umbargoes being punished for and act trying to save their own people.



Despite al the events of the past, it is the TC 's who want a solution more and have always been ready for negotiations, to live as equal citizens of Cyprus rather than second class citizens who have no representation or say in the Government.



Biker

Aslan


Joined: 23/06/2008
Posts: 757

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 13:59

Absolutely right Biker,

The UK and US governments have a dictatorship tier system based on location and commodities, how can the following dictators who have carried out genocide be treated differently.

Makarios (religious leader, no oil, most easterly country to the middle east)

Milosovic ( Evil murderer, no oil)

Mughabe ( Evil murderer, no oil)

Hussein ( Evil murderer, OIL)

Burmese Army (Evil Murderers)

Chinese governments (Evil murderers)



They all have one thing in common the orhestration of mass murders of innocent people. yet only one saw the end of a rope.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 14:43

Pike

Your answer to phantom and susanne



"I'll drink to you both very shortly! Keep the faith - there's more of you than the other lot and Cyprus belongs to YOU. "



Are you implying that there is more GC and Cyprus belongs to them, and Phantom and Susanne are GC ?

Please correct me if I am wrong or have you made a mistake in your comment ?



Biker



Or

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 16:32

Biker,



"Are you implying that there is more GC and Cyprus belongs to them, and Phantom and Susanne are GC ?



Please correct me if I am wrong or have you made a mistake in your comment ?"



Not at all. I think Susanne has a GC father-in-law and as far as I know Plantom has a TC first name. What I mean is they are clearly peaceniks and these are the guys who should be getting all the support they need to push aside the refuseniks. The ones who don't drag up the past are the ones to be trusted with the future of Cyprus.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 16:35

ukturk,



As I said in the last post, I would put my faith in the ones who have already put their faith in a shared future regardless of which community they come from.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 17:52

pike

all fine and well looking in from the outside and saying this, but to get a real feel for what is going on you have to speak to everyone who is concerned in this situation that is the whole of turkish cypriot and greek cypriot community, how can we have a shared future when both sides (not being biast) dont trust each other for one reason or another, like i said we can bang on about it all day with our views but it wont make a blind bit of diffrence when people from both sides of the fence cant forget what happened, especially the youth of cyprus where hatred is breed into them thru school or outside intrests

you cant be so naive to put faith in to people who you dont even know in a perfect world this would be a lovely gesture but in a realstic world this will never happen

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 18:47

There was an article in KIBRIS gazetesi today.

Obviously this is written in Turkish but I will try to translate the basic events into english.



Link : http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php/cat/2/news/56075/PageName/Ic_Haberler



Two TC young men went to South for entertainment as they were returning home in their car they stopped at a traffic lights. A car pulled up next to them then some greek youngsters came up and started hitting their car and shouting "Cyprus is Greek". When lights turned green TC drove off only for the GC youngsters to start chasing them with the car and making provocative signs. TC youngsters had to start speeding a lot and managed to get to near Dikelia where they had a small accident and their tyre got a puncture. Greek youngsters started throwing stones at them and they had to run and take refuge in a house nearby. House belonged to the deputy SBA police chief. When police came to look at the incident the car was badly damaged and a mobile telephone was stolen from the car.



-- This is a very clear indication of the HATE that is shown towards TC people. ---



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 18:49

ukturk,



The person who has no faith in the fture is not much use to their community and certainly should not be the type of person negotiating with the other side for a settlement. I'm not so daft as to not realise there are still about 30% chauvanists on both sides. What I'm saying is that a time of negotiation which will involve give and take we should marginalise these people. That's why you have media black-outs (I suspect there is one happening now) so the easily excitable get kept out of the picture so they don't screw it up for everyone.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 18:55

Biker,



A shocking incident but what does flagging it up prove when all the majority of good people on both sides would condemn it? This is not an everyday incident and to portray it as normal attitudes in the south is just sowing the seeds of mistrust. The old-fashioned policeman in me almost wishes they were caught and handed over to a couple of TC SBA cops for a beating. But then the Brits used TC police for torturing and beating GCs in the 1950s and this drove a deep wedge between both communities. Only the ultra-nationalists would try and make something of this isolated incident, but who cares, they're enemies of Cyprus anyway and should be shunned.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 20:13

pte pike

a simple question if cyprus was ever reunified how much would the turkish

people be involved in the running of the country,and in your opinion do you

think us lot as you call us would be accomplished enough too contribute

anything at all .i just like to hear your own opinion i dont want you too paste

an article and post it becouse quite honestly i just bypast them,just tell us how you see it ,as i believe you think most t/c politicians are corrupt,or maybe it

should be left as it is.please just what you think , not anyone else

thanx

musin

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 21:39

Musin,



I think the TCs would be in complete control of the running of their own country in its day to day affairs. If you've been following events over the decades you shouldn't need me to tell you what a bizonal, bicommunal federation with a single international identity means.



In answer to your second question, I don't think you or those with your narrow outlook and entrenched, stereotypical attitude to the other community in Cyprus have anything of value to contribute to the future of the island. If I had any say in the matter I would isolate you from any contact with the other side in mediation talks. IMO you belong to yesterday's Denktas generation and are out of touch with reality. But as you are clearly Londrali it makes no odds anyway.



I don't believe you scrolled past what I posted of the UN human rights report. I think the truth of the matter is you don't like to see the world community holding Turkey and the TC leadership responsible for wrecking the chance of a united public after independence, ethnic cleansing and other war crimes and being the main obstacle against progress between both communities.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/07/2008 22:10

pte pike

im sorry if ive upset you ,but quote (you think the t/cs would be in control ,

you dont think people like me with narrow minds,you think the truth of the matter is ) thats the problem too many thinks.oh by the way never mind about

the londralis i speak for the majority of t/cs and if you dont like it you only

have too cross the border im sure you will be more then welcome,becouse

these so called londralis are coming home and we will make the trnc even

stronger. when lives are at risk you must be sure thinking just does not

cut it

the trnc long may she flourish

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 00:07

Musin,



No dramas, you haven't upset me or anything. I'm just saying I think you are mistaken to think most TCs think as you do. At the last referendum most wanted reunification. Do you really think they will have changed their minds. Anyway, how would you like your souvlaki, koumpare? You know you want one.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 00:51

pike

a person or persons can have as much faith as they want but peace treatys dont not get signed on just faith alone does it, and again we can say a bit of give and take will win the day try and say that to the people who are doing the negotiation when each side dont trust or dont wont to give just take, then its time to call it quits and let both sides carry on as they all people who lost homes and land to be compansated on both sides lets both sides trade together and be both reconised as two seperate states have no buffer zone just border crossings and finally settlers from both sides remain where they are, because like you are saying if a bizonal and bicommunal system with a single international is in place who would you think would represent cyprus on the international scene whatever the case from politically down to sports and who would decide this!!!

you keep going on about the world community blaming turkey and nc, this is slowly turning the page because people not so single minded are reading between the lines and not getting taken in to the media propaganda like of old, do i have to remind it was the greek cypriots who wanted and strived for enosis to firstly kick the otomans out of cyprus, then the brits and finally the tukish cypriots and join with up with their hellanstic brothers and sisters and their idea which was called megali idea has been around sine the early 1800's and carried on thru to the greco turkish war in 1919-22 and up to cyprus in present times and they would have achevied this if turkey did not intervine, and turkey and north cyprus has not put the block on cyprus moving forward the only time peace could have been achevied was thru the anan plan which turkey was all for and of course north cyprus said yes but south cyprus said no so who is not letting progress be made

you go on about londralis most of these who did flee had the oppunity to do so can you blame them they has british passports due to cyprus being part of the empire and it does not make any diffrence where you are its where you are from!!!! and belive you me any turk londralis are accepted and are turkish cypriots and can comment on their own country and their views would be respected aswell as their vote (exactly what the south did whe they had their elections they was bringing in greek cypriots in from the u.k) not any outsider especially from the u.k and the old mighty british empire of old who was in cyprus to divide and rule especially when the troubles happend and the british police sent out turkish cypriot police to police the greeks who were causin the trouble not innocent people!!! so off course their was going to be trouble between the turks and greeks while the brits just sat back and watched

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 01:01

pikey





whats with the greek ,i have upset you haven, t i son.



musin

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 01:05

ertan

born a turkish cypriot ,die a turkish cypriot where ever in the world you are





best regards

musin

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 01:26

Musin and Ukturk, absolutely, we are Turkish Cypriot. Pike is aiming to deny our heritage by using 'londralis' as if we are not real TCs. Pike likes the idea of there being fewer TCs in the world, so in his mind we don't count as TCs because we don't live in Cyprus. How childesh is that? Well, that's a pro GC, propagandist for you.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 01:27

*childish*

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 13:35

Dy1259 Musin and Ukturk

Well said.



Pike

When it suits you, you make reference to all the old incidents, but we it does not you shout about looking at future and hoping and thinking.

When I refer to an incident that happened just the day before, you say it is just an isolated incident.

Why does that kind of incident never happen on the Turkish side?



People can only make judgements on what has happened and decide accordingly. Unfortunately you will be hard pushed to find one TC who cay say they trust the Greeks, as they are in the majority.

If there was voting on any subject, which side do you think will implement what they want?



Biker

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 14:39

Well said, Biker. We can keep 'saying' and that's good. TCs need to speak up to counter the Greek Cypriot propaganda and lies.

sylvie


Joined: 12/03/2008
Posts: 1081

Message Posted:
09/07/2008 14:52

to musin, erkan, biker, dyl -



i keep reading all your posts very carefully - you are saying what we think my husband and i - so well done carry on - it is a pleasure for me to follow your discussion - i had these many time in an other forum before 2003 - i just can confirm that cyprus is well off the way it is today - life is safe for the following generation !

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 18:23

ukturk,



Lot's of history there but of course lots of people thrive from it for their own ends or agenda. I think it's suffice to say that Turkey and its proxies in Cyprus had a policy of partition running after the EOKA stuff started - and nearly 20 years before the Greek coup on the island. One side is as bad as the other as regards living together in peace. Also suffice to say that the people who appear to have the most extremist, nationalistic views are the ones living nowhere near Cyprus.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 19:19

‘There can be no peace without justice. (Consider it—if you were discriminated against every day of your life based on something over which you had no control, would you be feeling harmonious with your oppressor?) There can be no justice without equity. So if we want peace and harmony, all we have to do is provide equity.’



There has been no justice for the TCs since 1963, this is owing to the fact that the GC government of south Cyprus has unjustly been recognised by the IC. The TCs/TRNC have been discriminated against in favour of the GCs/GC government of south Cyprus since 1963. End the embargoes/isolation of TRNC/TCs and allow direct flights and then just watch how the GCs would be more willing to agree to a realistic and fair solution to Cyprus and be more willing to power share with the TCs. This would be the only hope for reunification.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 19:34

What about a little respect the ENGLISH 'Settlers' in TRNC

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/07/2008 21:59

hi

if we are going to go back in history and this is not for my own agenda, the otomans ruled cyprus from around the 1500's to the late 1800's always allowed their inhabitatants to follow whatever religion and customs they had, then the british empire took control and annexed cyprus there was never trouble until after the second world war when all greek cypriot and greece mainlanders fought along side the allies and they was under the impresion that the british empire would alow cyprus to join with greece for their rewards in fighting with them which they was sadly mistaken and by 1950 the greek church held a referendum which they voted 90% for the union with greece which the british rejected and five years later the eoka party was formed for the sole purpose of independance and union with greece by whatever means,

and for you to say turkey or turkish cypriots had this policy of parttion (taksim) after the eoka stuff (if you can just call it stuff) started to use aggresion what did you expect them to do just sit there and wait to be killed and the only reason the tmt was formed was a counter measure in response to the eoka and would have never been formed if this so called party was around, and because of the british empire playing their divide and rule game they made turkish cypriot police go after these eoka members which in turn caused more bad feeling between cypriots

you saying that both is bad as each other i have to disagree in whatever case there is always a aggresor and one who is the receiver of this aggresion until one day the receiver stands up and says no more and takes action by any means

one thing i do aggree with you is a lot of people have a lot of extreme, nationalistic views that have not even stepped one foot into cyprus and i can give you a prime example go and have a look on topix forum where there are hundreds of so called greek cypriots who live in the u.s who spend their whole day insulting turks and turkish cypriots and who think they know everything nothing worse than a greek yank that thinks they know it all!!!!! and these people cant even have a adult disscussion without resorting to abuse and childish behaviour

so how can we have peace in cyprus when we have these idiots writting all kinds of bull!!!!

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
14/07/2008 17:06

Hi

In Cyprus there has been peace since 1974, and this only due to the presence of the Turkish army.



The problem is trying to find a formulae that will give all citizens of Cyprus equal rights to have a say how the country will be run and not be treated as minority or ethnic citizens.

If this can be achived then whether one is a settler from Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Armenia or any other country and has lived a certain length of period in Cyprus should not matter.



The whole issue is TRUST. The GC does not want the turkish army and feel threatened even though there has never been any threats to greeks since the intervention in 74.

The TC does not trust the greeks due to their experiences of oppression and masacres they have sufferred until 74.



Talk about peace is not right. The talk should be about a solution.



Biker

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
14/07/2008 17:30

Littlenige

I agree

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
14/07/2008 18:02

I am sure that the english " settlers" here make a valuable contribution to the island and as such should be respected as a group and ot continually EXPLOITED.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 01:12

Yes, Littlenige, but you should have said British settlers, for while you are in

a majority, the Celtic nations are amazingly present here! (And I'm one of 'em)

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
15/07/2008 08:49

Ok i stand corrected.



I am sure that the British" settlers" here make a valuable contribution to the island and as such should be respected as a group and ot continually EXPLOITED.