Breaking News European Court of Human Rights landmark ruling ?

kennyb1


Joined: 06/06/2009
Posts: 88

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 18:53

http://www.brtk.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=2&Itemid=2

Interesting ruling

Comments welcome

Keep posting

Keep smiling

Kennyb

Rocker



Joined: 24/09/2008
Posts: 384

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 19:12

What a nice change and I like the bit the Greeks had never lived on the estates, Thanks for cheering me up.

Rocker

teatime


Joined: 20/10/2008
Posts: 852

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 19:57

Seeing sense at last!

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 20:36

That is great news and will now make the GC's think about their greed.

Hopefully the 'worm is turning' at long long long last!!

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 20:46

Yes - I agree with all of the comments. It's just a shame it took so long!

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 21:00

great link kenny , if thats the outcome over a previous greek owned property then all us like you ken have no worries as turtle bay village and sweetwaterbay where nothing only shrub land before being developed.



wait till the trade embargo is lifted then we are really cooking on gas barbys !



andy

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 21:06

Result !!!!!!

Linnyloos


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 483

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 21:24

Excellent !

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 21:54

I have always believed that in the ROC the passing on of 'refugee' status from one generation to the next was wrong and this ruling will now hopefully put a stop to it.

The worm is turning and has been for some time. The world is now waking to the fact that the GC's will never regard TC's as being their equal.

AJ

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 22:03

Experts say that the judgment is a serious blow for the Greek Cypriot Side’s position regarding the property issue which claims that the original owner and not the current user should have first say over the disputed property.



Sense at last!! The tide is turning......

jamestalbot


Joined: 20/12/2009
Posts: 958

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 22:15

Excellent news

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 22:16

AJ says the worm is turning, No1 says the tide is turning and the ECHR are just turning the bubbles down left,right and centre !!



The good old passage of time )

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 22:39

The bubbles have burst,

Grey.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 22:43

Let's start partying....... )

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 22:48

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=humble+pie+you+tube&hl=en&rlz=1T4ACAW_enGB304GB304&prmd=v&source=univ&tbs=vid:1&tbo=u&ei=eh0ATPqqIoTw0wSB4Zj3Ag&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CCoQqwQwAw



There will be plenty of this kicking about,

Grey.

Smity



Joined: 14/09/2009
Posts: 826

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 23:19

Why has it taken so long for a judge to see sence and do the right thing

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 23:27

It certainly certifies the status of exchange land where no building was ever there before. They can't have lived in the property if there never was a property...



I think this vindicates the stance taken by Rauf Denktaş in agreeing to an exchange of land with the ROC President in 1974 as a pragmatic approach to the division that would allow both sides to exist. Of course the south reneged on that deal but it's been cemented by the ECHR now.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 23:29

Long live the TRNC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
28/05/2010 23:55

The Greek Cypriots have been using the Human Rights issue to the full and tried to corner Turkey by thousands of applications to ECHR. At the end this backfired on them and ECHR was glad to transfer all these files to the Compensation Board. This latest decision is a natural follow up decision.

The GCs are making the same mistake within EU and are trying to corner Turkey and it is about to backfire on them. GCs are insisting that Turkey opens her ports to GCs under EU law and Turkey is ready to do that if TRNC ports are recognized. Now many EU countries are supporting the Direct Trade Regulation and Germany is the latest member to support it. the acceptance of Direct Trade Regulation will open up the ports of TRNC and once again the zeal of the GCs will backfire on them.

ismet

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 00:12

What does this mean for all of those who bought new properties built on scrub land that never had a house on it?



Well it certainly means no GC can take your property away by application to the ECHR



NB. There is no appeal against an ECHR decision.

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 06:52

Can someone please explain to me what the difference is between this ruling and that given to the Orams?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 07:29

The decision given in the Orams' case was by the ECJ European Court of Justice, this decision is by the European Court of Human Rights.



In the Orams' case the ECJ decision was to rubber stamp the decision of a members state's highest court. i.e. the ROC courts decision to victimise them in a most cruel way simply because they could was accepted as a legally decision legally arrived at in a members state and all member states have to adhere to it. As the Orams had attended (even though in my opinion they didn't get a fair trial in the kangaroo court in the south) the ECJ found itself in a difficult position with all the accusations of bias etc. and really wanted nothing to do with it, but could not ignore it and could not accept that the decision and judgement was disproportionate given the time scales and other occupants of the land.



cont...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 07:34

In my view this was a politically motivated and backed prosecution and has back-fired big time because it concentrated the minds of Euprope's legal eagles on a subject matter they had pretty much ignored up to that point.



The beauty of it is, this final nail in the coffin of the 'get-off my land but I'm not wanting to return your land' brigade have now been given no workable option but to seek compensation.



They must be livid... oh dear what a shame the world now knows a lot of them are claiming emotional ties with a bit of land they never lived on... or worked on... of have ever even visited.

Mr Vince


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 696

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 07:48

Rottolover



My understanding of the Orams case is that all the appeals and rulings from progrssivly higher courts, ratyfied the decission of the ROC court. It was a question of implementing an ROC court decission in other EU courts. The fact that ths involved a land claim is incidential. It was the principle of upholding an EU member state's court ruling throughout the EU. It could have just as easily have been about a speeding or parking ticket. Now that the IPC has been unofficially/officially recognised as the route of future land/property issues and the ECHR stating that previous owners cannot claim if they were never previous ocupiers of property, the issue of GC's claiming back land/property is now very remote.



Maybe we will start to see prices rising and more property selling.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 08:04

The ruling is certainly yet more positive news for the TRNC. I wonder if this will finally focus GC minds to start negotiating for a solution to the cyprob REALISTICALLY.



I dare say we will see yet more dollies thrown out over the next few days in ROC newspapers/forums.

johnnybgoode


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 252

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 10:24

best news i've heard this past 4 yrs in the trnc

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 11:51

I am a puzzled by some of the celebratory remarks here its not as though a judge has said that it was not their land.



In this case the judges have ruled that these people can not claim for loss of use and enjoyment of their homes mainly because they didnt live there. Common sense.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 12:03

Unfortunately, common sense has been missing for 35 years or more, even now the Roc is in the process of declaring hundreds more refugees. Perhaps this will stop their nonsense, but I fear not.



Patientia est a donum superum

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 12:26

Stubs,

Are you Pikey in disguise,this has to be the best news to come out of all the commotion and carry ons over the last few years,and you come on with a comment for the sole purpose of winding people up.Get real pal,

Grey.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 13:59

Pikey in disguise??



I'll take that as a compliment



The best news in years???



I've to get real??



All that has happened is that a judge has decided that someone who didnt have any emotional ties or did not live on a property can not claim compensation for such emotional loss. Common sense is it not?



Remember the Loizidou case and how much compensation she was awarded?



who is winding whom up?

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 14:31

More on this in todays CyprusMail - http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/echr-tells-refugees-it-s-no-longer-your-home/20100529



and info here also - http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/last-35-property-cases-echr/20100529

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 15:23

Stubs,

Do you have property in Northern or Southern Cyprus or neither,

Grey.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 16:00

Or both,

Grey.

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 17:16

stubs, msg 27,



This message wrote absolute sense. Please do not pick on him for adding an extra interpretation to the decision.



Nobody is more pro TRNC than me, fully appreciating the appalling treatment of Turkish Cypriots since 1960.

I understand your wish to celebrate, however I suspect that you are all being very premature in using this judgement to signify a final verdict on this matter.



My reading of all the articles "linked" to this thread is that the plaintiffs went to UCHR on the wrong grounds - ie they claimed ( under article 8) that they had been denied access and use of their "HOMES". The court quite rightly said that they were not their "HOMES", according to article 8.



What will happen if they claim (under some other article) that they have been denied access and use of their "LAND" or their "FARMING INCOME" ?

The UCHR may then agree with them!



Hold your celebrations. I think and hope you/I will eventually win, but I dont think this is the final victory.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 18:18

The only beneficial impact will be as my posting no.9 in this thread.

AJ

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 18:33

msg. 34

Ozbey,

Your question has already been answered by the European Court of Human Rights which in effect overturned the Loizidou judgement by their recent decision in Demopoulos case. In effect the GCs have been told to apply to the Compensation Board and be ready to accept compensation or exchange or have their land back or they can wait until a final solution to the Cyprus problem. i.e. they told them to forget ECHR and look elsewhere.

The GCs are about to suffer another setback from EU. They have been pressing EU to force Turkey to open her ports to them and in retaliation EU is getting ready to accept the direct trade regulation which in effect will open Famagusta and Ercan to Europe. All this reflects the increasing importance of Turkey in world politics.

ismet

Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 18:49

Thanks ismet.



Regards,

Ozbey.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 20:17

Some misinterpretation here. This case was heard a few months ago with 2 GC applicants, applying to the court by relying on Article 8, which relates to the right of respect for home and family. The applicants had, complained of not having been able to return to and enjoy their homes.



The outcome was that there was no violation of Articles 8, because the two had lost all rights of use over the property as they had not lived long enough in the said homes which had in fact belonged to their families.



The GC's were not actually asking for the return of their properties but compensation for the loss of use and the impact this has had on their quality of life.



It was reiterated that they are still the "legal" owners of the property they simply are not entitled to the compensation being claimed.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/05/2010 21:11

Hi Bradus



Wow, glad to see some balance has appeared..



Cooper's second link from the CY Mail is hardly something TR would be 'celebrating', either... it ALLOWS the ECHR - NOT the IPC - to hear 35 cases..



There's a few more turns of the dice, yet...



What most of us need to remember is that ownership is not seriously questioned, now.... it is the matter of any compensation / restitution.



The inevitable conclusion will be - a negotiated settlement !

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:54

Grey re msgs 32 & 33



I have interests in the north and the south.



We also lived in the North for almost 4 years and do still have some business interests.



What about you? Have you ever lived there full time?

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
31/05/2010 17:56

Mark



You'be hit the nail on the head with your posting