Deadly Israel-Lebanon border clash

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 16:52

Israel has just attacked Lebonan again.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-10851692

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 16:59

hiya, just been reading that also, just what we need x

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 17:13

YFred



Reading the report it seems the Lebanese fired first after the Israelis did a bit of 'gardening'

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 17:41

The fact was that Lebanon was defending its borders and rightly so!!

How would you like if someone came and put a camera in your garden- thats what the Israelis did, put a camera INSIDE Lebanon.

This happens all the time and UNIFIL are rather busy at the moment!!

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 17:48

Really Paul, since when was one country's soldiers allowed to cross the border into another country for gardening purposes.



Lets see if Israel has learned any lessons from invading Lebanon last time around. Or are they gona go on a killing spree and kill a few more thousand arabs from the air.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 17:59

Is TRNC in the likely fallout area of a nuclear attack on Israel?

Geoff

Famagusta (bomb proof) City.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:24

YFred



There are conflicting accounts of precisely what happened. Not unsurprisingly, the Israelis claim that they were on 'their' side of the Blue Line whilst the Lebanese claim that the Israelis crossed it.



Don't mean to be provocative but currently there doesn't appear to be any independent witness(es) as to what happened, so it is a bit early to point the finger at either side.



Lets see what UNIFIL turn up.



Ang



Haven't seen anything reference cameras, can you post a link ??



Regards



Paul

Tootie


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 2037

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:32

Msg 6: Depends what way the wind is blowing ??

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 18:38

Regarding the camera, this is what is reported on Lebanese TV, with close ups of the tree in question!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 19:06

I'm always amazed how many British people are against Israel on this board. I think the Brits are among the last to condemn anything Israel does. Modesty, you know? 1948. Exodus. Concentration camps for Jews on Cyprus. etc.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 19:17

Good point Dutchcrusader,



I actually live in Lebanon and hear a different view as obviously the Lebanese Media is like any other media, but the local Lebanese have endured years of suffering at the hands of the Israelis.

I have seen for myself, when doing Security for a large American News Channel, the Israelis are no saints or shrinking violets when it comes to going in hard. This I have seen maltreatment of women and children.



I suppose its because when back in UK we only ever hear the Israeli viewpoint and basically are almost taught from a young age to be on the side of Israel, yet when away and living here you hear two sides to every story(similiar to the GC's viewpoint)

I read Jeremy Bowens book on the 6Day War and in his book he remarks the scorn shown by homegrown Israelis to the Jewish Settlers who went there after the Holocaust. Israelis had no respect for the people who gave in.

Who was the first main trainer of the Israeli Guerrilas- ORDE WINGATE- Chindit Leader !

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 19:33

I have to confess to a grudging 'admiration' of the Israelis. OK, they may go OTT at times BUT you mess with them at your peril !!



Paul

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 19:38

Ang



Watching BBC World news and CNN, nothing being reported about any cameras, even by the Lebanese correspondent.



Be interesting to see how this 'develops'. I hope that no one is kept in the dark (room) about this



Aye



Paul

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 19:38

RE msg 12, fiendishpaul: I support Israel (right or unfortunately sometimes wrong) because it's the only country in the world that cannot afford to lose just one battle or conflict - or would we like Hitler to have his 'Endlösung' (final solution) after all?

karamany


Joined: 12/04/2008
Posts: 218

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:02

Funny people really those isrealians, they suffered real pain in the era of hitler and now they are doing worst to the arabs, if you can see the course of history you would see the heartless and brutal actions done by isreal. in 1970 isreal bombed a primary school in a village in egypt called bahr el baqr ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahr_el-Baqar_incident). or in the year 2000 opening fire on unarmed man and his 10 yr old son and killing the boy while he was in his father's arms causing the father to faint from despair. if you want more proof there are tons, and if your thinkin this is maybe media decption i want you to think about it logically isreal has one of the strongest armies in the world, usa alone provides it with 80 billion dollars every year plus milltary intellgance. so i m so tired of these crocdile tears of isreals talking about what hiltler did when they themseleves dont know the meaning of mercy.

karamany


Joined: 12/04/2008
Posts: 218

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:13

( http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=5931401). this is the video of the child that was brutally murdered in the amrs of his father

Simhar


Joined: 18/05/2009
Posts: 227

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 20:33

Sadly there is always credible evidence of wrongdoing and atrocities from both sides in any prolonged conflict such as the middle east struggle. Israelis can show video tape of unprovoked rocket attacks from both Gaza and Lebanon resulting in terrible injuries and death as (demonstrated above) can Lebanon against the Israelis.



Sitting outside on a forum in Cyprus, watching and reading media reports does not give us the information required to make a judgement on the rights and wrongs of these countries.



Only by first hand experience can a true judgement be made, but then of course impartiality goes out the window. Many people have tried to broker peace in a region torn by conflict, hopefully, one day someone will succeed.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:30

re 12, fiendishpaul



There are reports on a surveillance camera.

http://www.debka.com/article/8947/

Israel admits it saying it was on their side of the border, between the internationally recognised blue line, and the fence (for those who knows what it's about). Lebanese snipers fired killing a brigade commander and the IDF launched a counterattack.



ang1706

I agree that UNIFIL is a joke considering Hizballah's activities just under their noses.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:32

re 16, karamany



this French television "documentary" is a staged hoax. Just read the independent ballistics expert reports. The poor boy was not in the line of fire of the Israeli outpost not mentioning the confusion about timeline and many other discrepancies. This Al-Dura affair is one of the most shameful indictments of western media.

expatlady


Joined: 11/07/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 21:46

Re msg 18:



I´m not sure what any this has to do with NC, but if you want to discuss the Middle East, you must ALWAYs check who is writing what:



For example: debka.com is an Israeli site, who is associated with the far-right. AFAIK, they reported that Saddam Hussein was hiding in...Syria, just after the US invasion there (at a time when Rushfeld et.al. were doing their best to demonize Syria)



Yeah. Right.



See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debka.com (not that you ever, ever should trust wikipedia!)

karamany


Joined: 12/04/2008
Posts: 218

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:02

there is no proof that this aldora situation is a hoax and if there is please send me the link because i would love to beleive that its a hoax i really do. other than that there are more proof of brutaltes that i will galdy send you the links too. and i dont think you can doubt the truth of "bahr el bakr" the priamry school that has been completely been wiped out causing the death of 46 kids and 50 harshly injured many of them maimed for life. also in lebnanon 2006 Most of the big cities in lebanon were completely destroyed, more than 1200 civilians were killed by the Israeli army. also the massacure of Qana, Lebanon Is a village in southern Lebanon located 12 kilometres (7.5 mi) north of the border with Israel. Qana is known internationally for two separate incidents in which the Israeli Defense Forces caused civilian deaths during military operations in Lebanon.

In April 1995, heavy fighting between the Israel Forces and Hezbollah fighters, killing 106 civilians and injuring 116.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:13

Paul, I have lived long enough to know when Israel does something wrong. And believe me they always do. I can't believe for one moment that the Lebanese soldiers fired into Israel. Hezbollah yes but not soldiers.



I don't need independent reports either. Logic says that if they were uprooting a tree, it had to be on the Lebanese side, on the Israeli side it would not be allowed to grow.



I have long learned to believe opposite of anything Israel claims and I have always been correct.

Sorry to be rather over confident and all that but eventually you will also come to the same conclusion if you are a fair minded person and remain so.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
03/08/2010 23:15

msg 21 why dont we hear of all you say, this is just so awful, i know war is always two sides , i agree with dutch crusader, if this is a hoax then thats sad. todat obamha announced he will remove the tyrrops from iraq by end of august, only leaving a few thousand to trian the people there, is this the next war x

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 00:21

Re 20



Not me started the thread. Just wanted to answer msg.7 re the camera.

Debka in not a source to be always trusted. Here is another source

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/firefight-between-israel-and-lebanon-leaves-5-dead/19579413 and a quote:

"Lebanese sources said the Israelis were trying to erect a surveillance camera on the border fence." AFAIK (and seen), the fence that Israel erected to separate the two countries is on the Israeli side.

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 00:29

Re 22



"I can't believe for one moment that the Lebanese soldiers fired into Israel." But they did fired first! And I wouldn't be surprised if Hizballah has their insiders in the Lebanese army.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 00:34

Its a bit more serious than a routine border episode.

This comes a couple of days after the King of Saudi and the Syrian President Assad held a summit here, granted their main topic was the involvement of Hezbollah and the upcoming Inditement into the assasination of Rafik Hariri, but its too close for comfort.



Apparently the UN are holding a session tomorrow to try and defuse the issue.



The reports coming are going to be biased on whatever side but are glad the Israelis are mentioning the Camera!!- Even if they claim it was ion their side. Its a bit strange though as to why a Lt Colonel would be there if it was just being erected on his side. I find that fishy as he was the Israeli casualty, makes you wonder as to who else was there. As in my Army Days a Lt Colonel would only be interested in something like that if there was high profile around!!

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 02:15

Spot on anq. The truth is that all this event got nothing to do with a tree. Its a nice little story about a cute dictator named Assad, and his cuddly pet by the name of Nasrallah who is about to get blamed for a little harmless thing called the Hariri murder. And who now threatens that should the global policeman arrive and punish him, he will ignite everything – not only Beirut and its environs. Now add to that the elderly Abdullah who would not bother himself coming their had he not been convinced it's time to pull the matches away from Nasrallah's fingers...

Add to that the fact that Abu-Mazen got the green light to talk (god forbid) with the little Satan Israel, and that is a big no-no if you ask the peaceful Hamas (which main headquarters is at Syria, what a coincidence).



As for the (reservist) Lt Colonel of engineering corps duties in the army in question, I think it's might be a bit different than what you know by your experience with other military forces.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:15

Israel think they can go into any territory they like and do what they like and I get sick to bleedin death of them quoting the holocaust and dining off of it for life, they are war mongering murderers of innocent women, children and ordinary people going about their lives, they lie with as many teeth as they have and have no conscience of their actions and we wonder why countries like Iran say they want to wipe them off the map.....little wonder....after all Israel are trying to wipe their neighbours off the face of the earth.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 10:21

Israel is The Rothschilds baby, and their family history tells it all.



They now own 50% of the Worlds wealth. Greed and Evil personified!



wynyardman

Rogerdodger


Joined: 24/04/2008
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 11:10

Israel, are not always right, there is bad on both sides, however, I admire them in some respect having lived and worked in Israel for a short period of time, you throw a stone, they throw a rock, as for the "poor" paslistians, well, they are still running guns, shell, rockets ect through underground tunnels from Egypt, (not food), hezbolah, well they get what they ask for.



My personal opinion of course

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
04/08/2010 13:57

And now it's official. UNIFIL representative issued a statement saying that the trees being cut were located south of the international borderline.

"We deal with complaints on provocations of Lebanese soldiers against IDF units on a daily basis," Strugar told Army Radio, adding incidents occur "almost every day, there's a lot of tension round the border, but what happened is the worst incident since 2006."



re 29. You sound more and more like Goebbel, old man.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 20:55

RE msg 31, magsb: (...) re 29. You sound more and more like Goebbel, old man. (...)

=> I protest. Goebbels was just as bad as 'our Wyn', but not as stupid.

ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 570

Message Posted:
05/08/2010 21:32

I can tell you something, last week I could have gotten a flight to Europe at about $850 return, now the prices on all airlines is doubled and guess what there is no seats.



Ok it may be because Ramadan is coming!!



The Lebanese are very fearful of something happening and a lot are getting out for a bit!



So watch the news as it is boiling up here!