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Eurozone bail out for Greece begins to unravel

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basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
17/11/2010 19:03

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Message 1 of 28 in Discussion

Austria suspended aid contributions over failure to comply with the rescue terms, and Germany warned Athens that its patience was running out. Austria's finance minister Josef Proll said he was "very critical" of Greece's performance, saying Athens had failed to meet the tax revenue targets agreed under the EU Memorandum.



Credit default swaps on Greek debt rocketed 97 basis points to 950 as investors woke up to the awful possibility that the EU could turn its back on Athens, which will run out of money by mid-January without loans. A Greek default would trigger $300bn (188bn) worth of CDS contracts.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/8138739/Greek-rescue-frays-as-Irish-crisis-drags-on.html



BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
17/11/2010 21:53

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Message 2 of 28 in Discussion

GOOD



Hopefully the whole damn EU will collapse as individual Countries start to argue amongst themselves.



Everytime I read bad news about the EU it makes me HAPPY



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
17/11/2010 23:53

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Message 3 of 28 in Discussion

>>Hopefully the whole damn EU will collapse as individual Countries start to argue amongst themselves.

<<



Why would you feel that why.. do you think you are isolated from any 'fallout' if the whole thing falls apart ? .. Think again.. if you rely on a Pension, etc..



Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 00:04

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Message 4 of 28 in Discussion

Mark do you think our Ireland will be the point now x



walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 00:37

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Message 5 of 28 in Discussion

The EU is wasting money (computer digits) trying to save Greece and Ireland. It's all a big con - if they fail, the Euro will fail! Brussels is determined to try and stop that happening at all costs. Lies, lies and more lies from Brussels ... just like the US Government



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k&feature=player_embedded



Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 00:39

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Message 6 of 28 in Discussion

Viva Le Euro !!!! 10 Euro's for a pint of milk soon, the eurozone is sinking faster than the Belgrano



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 00:54

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Message 7 of 28 in Discussion

re msg 4

Lilli.. it's 'your' Ireland - well there's something wrong ;)



Never fear the UK are offering to help !!!



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11777135



'God save the Queen' :D



BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 01:25

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Message 8 of 28 in Discussion

6 M s



Re msg 3



The reason I want the EU to fail is because it is a corrupt anti democratic organisation that costs UK taxpayers billions of pounds each year over which WE have no control how it is spent.



Our Country unlike yours is continuely denied a referendum on whether we wish to be in the EU by dishonest politicians and therefore the only hope is that the whole project fails



I accept there will be a substantial price to pay but for me maintaining our sovereign integrity is more important.



Maybe if we dont have to pay the 60 odd billion a year to the EU this could be used to enhance pensions or limit cuts to our public services or even heaven forbid pay for some aircraft to go on our expensive new aircraft carriers



As for the UK offering financial help to Ireland I think our chancellor has lost the plot but if we do loan them the money I hope we secure some substantial assets as security if they have any that is and ensure our money is repaid in full first



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 07:11

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Message 9 of 28 in Discussion

We all need to be worried as there is more to come.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 07:55

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Message 10 of 28 in Discussion

Dear BB



re msg 8



I accept that the EU needs to be accountable - literally- for its spending, but I KEEP banging the drum that it is better to have a localised 'talking shop' than rather than nationalistic jingoists leading traditional 'competing states' to wars..



Ireland has had recent referendums on the EU *constitution* - not membership - and if *I* vote - it is in UK ... so 'our' country in this context, is also 'mine' ;)



Finally, NOT being in the EU : How many billions might *we* lose? It is our no.1 export market.



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 09:15

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Message 11 of 28 in Discussion

Can you trade with the EU without being a member ?



MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 18:22

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Message 12 of 28 in Discussion

Germany welcomes Ireland, along with Greece to their new Reich



It was a lot easier than the last two attempts, all they had to do was offer cheap money and low interest rates for a few years to some gullible countries....



dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 19:31

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Message 13 of 28 in Discussion

Hi,



Nice to see that little old Ireland is giving everyone plenty to talk about.



Irish banks owe German banks 127 BILLION thus the German's are quaking in their (jack) boots in case there is a default. The IMF and ECB are sending teams to Ireland tomorrow and they are "forcing" Ireland to accept a loan of between 90 bn to 150 bn. The Irish Government (or Muppets as we call them) have been denying that this is happening for the past week, now their bluff has been called.



You may ask why the UK should care? Well the UK exports more to the RoI than Brazil, India, and China COMBINED! This was revealed by David Cameron to a speech to the CBI last month. Also many UK banks (Ulster and RBS in particular) have significant operations in the RoI and could end up in hot water. 40% of Northern Ireland's exports are to the RoI.



If Ireland's economy goes down the tubes (mainly due to bank debt) then there is likely to be a domino effect throughout the EU inculuding the non-Euro zone.



Noldoyen


Joined: 18/11/2010
Posts: 18

Message Posted:
18/11/2010 19:44

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Message 14 of 28 in Discussion

I am seriously wondering why the euroepan union is a subject of value to people who decided to remove themselves from this comfort zone, to a sunny climate that decides it own laws and definition.



MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 15:23

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Message 15 of 28 in Discussion

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financevideo/8139029/The-Irish-crisis-explained-in-30-seconds.html



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 16:54

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Message 16 of 28 in Discussion

billbarnacle message 2



'

'Everytime I read bad news about the EU it makes me HAPPY '



What has europe of 500million people done to warrant such hatred from you. Thsee people have the same aspirations ,jobs, mortgages ,children as we have,and like us, are trying to get by without your wishes happening.



Do you not know the level of money owed to our banks by eurozone countries and what will happen if the Euro collapses and defaults on the debt.Our banks are owed 150million from Ireland alone.!!

The damage we would sustain would be as bad as that sustained by the rest of Europe.

Reminds me of the Cold War where some people believed victory was where 100% of the enemy was destroyed but only 95% of our people were destroyed.



Why dont the English join UKIP ,get out of Europe,and by that I mean lock stock and barrel , stop the ferries and shut the tunnel. g never leave your shore and give the rest of Europe a rest from your bile.



dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 18:01

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Message 17 of 28 in Discussion

Well said girne 29.



While we can all get frustrated and angry with the antics of the EU, by and large it has been a good thing. Imagine how isolated Greece and Ireland would have been without it.



A small point for barnacle bill. If the UK left the EU presumably that would mean all EU (non-UK) citizens would be deported? What then for the UK citizens living in other EU countries (other than Ireland where special arrangements exist)?



During the recent general election campaign it was revealed that there were MORE UK citizens in other EU countries than there are non-UK EU citizens in the UK!!!



We would see mass population exchanges akin to the aftermath of WW2.



How wonderful!



DD



LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 18:19

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Message 18 of 28 in Discussion

The most dynamic economies in the EU area are Norway and switzerland. NEITHER of which are members of the EU . Both maintain their own currencies and make their own rules by which they live. Is that so terrible ?



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 18:45

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Message 19 of 28 in Discussion

Dear Lovegod



I'm sorry to be the 'smart ass', but both Switzerland and Norway adhere to many EU rules.. like the UK.



Most EU citizens can tip up in Norway or Switzerland to live and work - as they can come to the UK.



So, a lot of their 'rules' are EU ones.... Immigration, right of freedom of movement, freedom of trade.....



dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 19:01

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Message 20 of 28 in Discussion

Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland are all members of the European Economic Area (EEA) thus giving them preferential trading rights and their citizens free movement throughout the EU (no visas).



These countries adopt many of the norms of the EU to enable them to enjoy these advantages.





DD



MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 19:52

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Message 21 of 28 in Discussion

DD



You fail to realise that the "poor" countries of Europe were suckered into the Euro, giving them interest rates that were far too low for their styles of government and attitude of their people.



All the cheap loans lead to massive asset price booms, with little real economic growth to justify these increases (except for housing bubbles that are now unwinding)



The PIGS are now so deeply indebted, with huge numbers of companies and individuals now in negative equity, that they will need German support to keep potatoes and paella on the table.



Ireland, Greece et al would have been much better served by their own currencies, with higher interest rates and floating exchange rates, that made them good cheap places for a holiday (or holiday home)

Now they have outpriced themselves from this important market, because they all thought they were as wealthy as Germans.



dublinderm


Joined: 26/09/2009
Posts: 538

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 20:31

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Message 22 of 28 in Discussion

MarkV,



I agree with everything you say.



However, it must be recognised that the German Banks and Governments were complicit in this situation as the German people were notorious for their saving but not spending way of life. In order to get a return on these hoards of savings, the German banks acted like pushers to get the Irish and others to take their money. Just in the same way as Irish and some UK banks (RBS in particular) 'pushed' ordinary folks to do likewise.



No single country in Europe is free of this great menace or indeed of guilt for it's creation.



DD



BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 21:39

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Message 23 of 28 in Discussion

girne 29 re msg 16



It is not the people of Europe I dislike but the EU as an institution.It is corrupt anti democratic and autocratic



I have absolutely no problem with free trade agreements or free movement of people or a host of other so called benefits of membership of the EU.



These arangements however can be acheived by bi lateral arrangements between countries where the individual nations chose what is acceptable to them and not have unacceptable arrangements imposed



As for you final comment this is typical of indiviuals who do not wish to allow free thimking people or nation states from making their own way by implying that any other option other than total integration will fail.

It is simply not true and if you can arrange for us to leave this foul union you may well end up being made a national hero of the UK because up till now everything possible is being done to prevent us from having such a vote - So much for democracy



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 21:52

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Message 24 of 28 in Discussion

You are right Dave - there's a lot more to come. House prices are falling in the UK, banks not lending money, strikes, it'll be a worrying 2011.



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/11/2010 22:19

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Message 25 of 28 in Discussion

msge 23



very well said



MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
20/11/2010 17:35

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Message 26 of 28 in Discussion

DD



I quite agree, too many governments and individuals have fallen prey to easy money. I'm sure Germany has done this in a deliberate attempt to control Europe.



The EU is a corrupt and expensive club designed to pay huge salaries and pensions to the ever growing legions of civil servants, with a few crumbs being handed down to the citizens who are being bled dry, not only by their own governments & local councils, but now Eurocrats too



Countries can and have always traded successfully with each other, without a common currency or bureaucracy



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/11/2010 17:59

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Message 27 of 28 in Discussion

msge 26



very well said



MarkVPiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
20/11/2010 18:07

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Message 28 of 28 in Discussion

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/8147913/IMFs-Dominique-Strauss-Kahn-wants-fiscal-and-reform-powers-given-to-Europe.html



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