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CTP and denial of citizenship rights

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Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 15:16

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Message 1 of 69 in Discussion

I read that the CTP is keen to remove the right of resident immigrants to citizenship after serving any period of qualification unless they are married to a Cypriot Turk.

Is this racism, ethnic cleansing by the back door or a misguided attempt to turn back the clock?

If this does happen it won't help the TRNC and would be against the law in most westernised countries as a denial of voting rights akin to apartheid.

What are they frightened of?

The genie is out of the bottle!



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 15:31

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Message 2 of 69 in Discussion

Instructions from the "Motherland"????Turkey has strict rules regarding were foreigners can live.............Just a thought.....



yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 16:12

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Message 3 of 69 in Discussion

You've already worked out a solution,so why worry?



Our problem over this is not the likes of you but the mainlanders.I've said this on this forum few times now.

So,do please find something else to keep yourselves accupied with and leave Cypriots to sort out whats rightly for Cypriots to sort out.



Enjoy your sunday.



mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 16:45

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Message 4 of 69 in Discussion

Hi Yorg.. does that include the property question ?



Or are you selective as to which problems ;) ?



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 20:44

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Message 5 of 69 in Discussion

What I find strange on this forum ,most complain the uk has gone down hill accepting all nationalities in

and then when another country tries to do what you want in the uk, because it effects you it is wrong ,

maybe if the uk adopted some of these ideas maybe it would not be in the mess it is now



gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 20:53

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Message 6 of 69 in Discussion

Philbailey,I couldn't agree more.



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 21:02

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Message 7 of 69 in Discussion

Sorry Yorgozlu but you are being 'racist'. Several folk came here on the understanding that after 5 years of living they could apply tobe citizens and really belong to the place that is their only home. Cypriots going to Britain never had any real problems, did they, so why should we now be penalised, especially as if N.Cyprus were to go in EU they couldn';t stop us being here and working here. At the moment they seem to be slamming the door in our faces whilst happily taking our money .



Several people feel let down by the government and what they state one day they deny another. I agree with the first poster that this IS a racism, and I know all the so called reasons why, but none of them justify it, and the present idea of having to be wed to a TC for 5 years just means that maybe the divorce courts will do well. O.K guys let's get divorced, marry TC's, get citizenship and then be reunited withour partners. Then what???????????????



I know that many London Cypriots and poli



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 21:07

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Message 8 of 69 in Discussion

Maz all of Cyprus is in the eu

but surely when you moved you knew the political uncertainties

I think any country that protects its own first deserves a round of applause



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 21:36

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Message 9 of 69 in Discussion

Posts 2 and 3 seem to argue against each other...



Yorg,



I know you think we are lesser beings for not being Cypriot but really you must try and disguise your racist tendencies a bit more cleverly... the chip on your shoulder is getting bigger.



MartinD41, as the restriction would prevent Turkish Mainlanders from becoming citizens I hardly think the 'Motherland' has anything to do with it..



As Maz has pointed out when people moved here they were under the impression that given service of a probationary period permanent residency & citizenship could be obtained. The CTP are acting a bit like the BNP don't you think?



What possible benefit do they (CTP) think is to gained by adopting this stance?



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
27/02/2011 21:41

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Message 10 of 69 in Discussion

If people want citizenship would they be willing to give up their eu entitlements/passports or do national service



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 21:45

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Message 11 of 69 in Discussion

Groucho, it's as Yorg said - CTP are aiming to keep Turkish mainlanders from becoming the majority in the TRNC and in case they then use their votes to take all the juicy jobs in government



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
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Message Posted:
27/02/2011 23:14

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Message 12 of 69 in Discussion

Question as tomilitary service etc -no problem (and depends on age. )Previously any man who had done national service in U.K was exempt here.

Giving up rights in EU/passport. Maybe a bit of dual nationality just like the London Cyps would be fair? And if one chooses to be a citizen it should be with a sense of pride and belonging.

As to the politics - haven't you ever heard of trust and belief. Ten years ago there was no need to distrust Denktash and he would always help tghose who wanted to be a part of this place. Since he gave up, there have been so many changes it is like the weather in Britain - unreliable.

Many of us understand why they want to keep Turk mainlanders out, but could I remind that we Brits have BOUGHT IN TO THIS PLACE, the Turk mainlanders were GIVEN LAND AND PROPERTY. Now they have takenover the planet!!!!Maybe there should be some understanding of our commitment through money.



Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
28/02/2011 01:03

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Message 13 of 69 in Discussion

Msg 1,

You must be talking about the mainlanders. Foreign expats numbers are too low to bother Turkey and they could be deported if needs be. Most immigrants to the north arrived through "illegal ports" as far as the RoC, EU and UN are concerned therefore should not be in Cyprus. Turkey is held responsible for who gets in and out. As world events would appear to be sweeping away illegal and unpopular regimes perhaps the CTP is well aware that what it seeks will be popular with the international community.

BTW, who are "Cypriot Turks" in your definition?



yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 07:29

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Message 14 of 69 in Discussion

mmmmmm;

"Or are you selective as to which problems ;) ? "

Yes.



Groucho,Maz;

How'd you react if 'you' were being overtaken in population by 5-600% and they were mostly 'travellers' or from caves.

I do not wish to include you in above but 'you' keep insisting!I'm also more then aware what most of you could add to TRNC communuty had you been given citizenship and be able to be free (ie.working),but all the while we are controlled by Turkey and they keep pumping their 'cheap labourers' with no qualifications to do the 'donkey work' and few so called 'rich club' members allowing it to carry on,I do not think there should be any changes regarding citizenship rights.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 07:39

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Message 15 of 69 in Discussion

Zoots,



You can hardly claim TRNC is akin to the despotic regimes in Egypt, Tunisia, Libya and Bahrain. In these countries political aspirations were almost totally suppressed in the notion that the leaders of single party government knew what was best for the populace and that included making political prisoners of anyone who dared to argue an alternative path.



Cypriot Turks are in this respect people with Cypriot blood. Why this should a regarded as a good thing I don't know. In the UK people complain that Islamic communities want to be separate and different and not assimilate into British culture... here people seem to defend the right of Cypriots to force outsiders to remain outsiders. Go figure!



cont...



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 07:39

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Message 16 of 69 in Discussion

Cyprus is a melting pot and always has been... this seems a clear attempt to turn back the clocks and force racial purity. This is backward looking backward thinking.



It would be like Scotland or Wales denying the right to vote in elections to those without Welsh or Scottish blood. So why do some think it OK here?



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 07:50

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Message 17 of 69 in Discussion

Yorg,



I've got a very nice cave thank you!



I see where you are coming from (sic) and I'm not sure I like it... seems to be the other side of a very thin wedge.



the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
28/02/2011 13:54

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Message 18 of 69 in Discussion

Msg 5 Philbailey,



The difference between the Uk & TRNC is that the UK let anyone in regardless if they can support themselves or not. The taxpayer ends up paying the bill for housing, medical bills, and other handouts. Try getting government handouts in the TRNC if you are a foreigner. Yes the UK should take a leaf out of the way other countries operate and not let people in unless they can keep themselves. I don't know why the TRNC government has changed it's policy on citizenship for foreigners. One would think after buying property here, spending ones money in the shops here, after 5 years of temporary residency they would think you deserve it. Perhaps they need the money that temporary residency generates and realise they would lose this income from their coffers.



The butlers wife



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 14:05

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Message 19 of 69 in Discussion

Mrs Butler,

You are confusing residency and citizenship a little. You used to be able to obtain permanent residency and citizenship was a separate issue But I take your point. What worries me is that as the world moves to a more racial mix the TRNC seems to be adopting the 'Canute' strategy.

Thing is, once you've allowed people to settle, it's a bit late to say, 'Oh - you'll NEVER have voting rights'.

Makes you wonder what they are scared of...

Is there any evidence to back-up their fears? Or is it all just more posturing to assuage the racial desires of the electorate.



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
28/02/2011 16:29

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Message 20 of 69 in Discussion

"Once you have allowed people to settle",it's a bit late to say ,Oh you'll never have your voting rights.."



I agree. But it is much the same as allowing people to BUY property,and pay for Residency only to be told "Oh no you can't legally own it,your a foreigner"....It sounds to me as if they are not scared of ANYTHING.......or they DON'T CARE...



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 16:39

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Message 21 of 69 in Discussion

Addendum.... Not caring is the more potentially Damaging....



the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 16:41

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Message 22 of 69 in Discussion

Groucho,





I was given to understand that after you have had temporary residency for 5 years, you would then get permenant residency. After 10 years you could apply for citizenship, this was the case when we bought our property in 2006.

In the intervening years things have changed, they don't even want to give you permenant residency now and you have to keep on applying year after year. What I don't understand is why they keep changing the rules, every time

a new government is formed they change the rules again.



The butlers wife



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 17:41

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Message 23 of 69 in Discussion

You are right the goal posts keep moving and to be honest if anything should put people off coming to live here it's the fact that you will always be treated as a sub-human... you can't say 'second class citizen' as citizenship is no longer available is it?

So we are being racially discriminated against... very forward thinking in the 21st Century, not... but then we are only cave dwellers and travellers...



brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
28/02/2011 18:46

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Message 24 of 69 in Discussion

I've been following these discussions and a thought occurred to me that this may be a lot simpler than everyone thinks. Is it a very simple (and crude) way of ensuring the local population has space to grow? If the aliens can never be citizens then they can be encouraged to depart as the local population grows.



Now then, before you all start throwing things at me, this is just my theory.



I can just hear Yorgozlu now.........."but brother, they are filling the place up with mainlanders anyway!"

In which case I am sad to say that we are caught between a rock and a hard place. We don't know why they are doing it but I know that they just can.



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 18:53

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Message 25 of 69 in Discussion

Very well said Brother...



Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 19:19

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Message 26 of 69 in Discussion

Groucho,



I thought "Cypriot Turks" was a handy phrase dreamed up to lump in the karasakals with the native Turkish Cypriots. In other words to assimilate the TCs out of existence in their own land.



waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
28/02/2011 19:31

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Message 27 of 69 in Discussion

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkey/essay/admin/becoming-a-turkish-citizen-how-to-obtain-turkish-p1



Interesting little site, maybe that is where TRNC is heading after the CTP takes its draconian steps? In particular I liked this one part: "Be able to speak an acceptable level of Turkish this needs to be formally signed off by the Turkish consulate who will issue a certificate after an interview with the applicant"



Maybe it would make us all try a little harder?



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 20:16

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Message 28 of 69 in Discussion

Groucho....Maybe you should re read my msg 2,and not be so pompous ,in the end turkey pays the PIPER ,and calls the tune



yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 20:38

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Message 29 of 69 in Discussion

malsancak,msg 11;

>>>CTP are aiming to keep Turkish mainlanders from becoming the majority in the TRNC and in case they then use their votes to take all the juicy jobs in government<<<



Neither of you realy got a clue what we are saying.

just to give you clearer picture;

1-This is not about CTP,UBP.......but about Turkish Cypriots

2-Turkish mainlanders ARE already a majority without anymore being given citizenship



....then again I know I'm wasting my time with you,cause 2 days later someone else will start another thread about this and same of you will be on it again,saying same things.



so,don't let me trying to stop you from going round the circles..................................again.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 22:16

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Message 30 of 69 in Discussion

msg 18 are you agreeing with me



the days of the world map being an empire is gone (british )



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 22:29

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Message 31 of 69 in Discussion

msg 18 you knowingly bought in a place unregonised by the international community and against British foreign office advice

how can you complain

accept the place for what it is and accept the "natives" policies



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 22:51

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Message 32 of 69 in Discussion

MartinD41

So Turkey pays the piper and calls the tune and that tune is to prevent their nationals from gaining citizenship here? I don't think so. It does not make sense.

I'm not being pompous when I say, I still don't understand the point you are making



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 22:58

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Message 33 of 69 in Discussion

Yorg,



This thread was started in response to recent announcement that a new law was being mooted that would deny citizenship rights to anyone not Cypriot or married to a Cypriot for ever....

Whether or not you want less Turkish influence in the TRNC this is a clearly racist matter. I do appreciate that some TC's feel overwhelmed by outside influence but I can't see any way around that without contravention of basic human rights.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 23:02

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Message 34 of 69 in Discussion

groucho read msg 31



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
28/02/2011 23:24

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Message 35 of 69 in Discussion

Yes Phil, but these are new policies and they go against EU policy which tends to damage the TRNC's call for EU recognition... You can't ask for membership of the club and then slap other members in the face... well you can, but it's not going to do your chances of avoiding the black-ball much good.



yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
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Message Posted:
01/03/2011 21:49

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Message 36 of 69 in Discussion

Groucho,msg 33;



Human rights!

2 SMALL WORDS WITH A BIG CONCEPT!



What about the basic human rights of Turkish Cypriots that has been denied from them (us) for the past 51 years by the whole wide world?Including Turkey.

Perhaps you meant 'selfish' human rights!



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
01/03/2011 22:14

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Message 37 of 69 in Discussion

Yorg,

No matter how beleaguered the TC's feel they are there is no justifiable reason why they should start enshrining injustice in their constitution, it won't serve them well and may make the TRNC a pariah state in much the same way as South Africa was under apartheid.

This would only serve the south's argument that the TRNC should not exist.

Once you start making laws that deny human rights it will lead to more problems not less...

What happens when a person denied the ability to become a citizen on the basis purely of ethnicity takes their case to the ECHR? They would look awful foolish, I would imagine, trying to defend a policy of discrimination against people on the grounds that they are of the wrong race...

Its' just not the done thing. Whether or not you want all foreigners out or not.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
01/03/2011 22:30

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Message 38 of 69 in Discussion

Countries like Australia also limit immigration and are probally better off for it



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
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Message Posted:
01/03/2011 22:57

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Message 39 of 69 in Discussion

Australia makes itquite quite clear from day one what visa you can or cannot have to go there and they stick to their rules. The TRNC said inpast years '#~Come and be a temp res for 3 years, then a perm res for 2 years and then you can apply for citizenship.' Many came and many did. In fact others had citizenship given to them by Denktash. Some who came here understanding they could belong after 5/6 years now discover they cannot even become perm res let alone citizens AND NO ONE HAS APOLOGISED OR EXPLAINED TO THEM WHY AFTER THEY HAVE THROWN THEIR ALL IN WITH THE COUNTRY.

That is where TGRNC differs from other countires. They keep moving the goal posts and in the case of \citizenship that goal post has been moved only in about the last 3 years. Prior to that the rule as mentioned above applied.

No wonder some of us are bitter and twisted! Well, not quite - but certainly saddened, disappointed, frustrated and 'lonely in the sense we do not belong anywhere. Turk mainlanders who ha



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
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Message Posted:
01/03/2011 22:59

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Message 40 of 69 in Discussion

/ who have come to work equally probably feel the same especially as their relatives and fellow countrymen were encouraged over here in the past and given homes, land and work. Now that's a huge move of the goalposts.



But it would be really nice if the Government were prepared to explain fujlly and not have people like Eroglu going to meetings of ex pats and saying how much they love us and want to make us all happy, cos they care for us. If they really care, they could show it! (End of angry tirade!)



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
01/03/2011 23:03

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Message 41 of 69 in Discussion

maz see msg 31



laws and rules change in every country



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
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Message Posted:
01/03/2011 23:05

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Message 42 of 69 in Discussion

Of course they do, but normally a degree of compassion and ethics is displayed in other places. Manyof us thought that TRNC (certainly under Denktash and also Talat) had compassion born out its formation of those who had been persecuted and oppressed. Now it seems that many of us who came here to help the country are now being persecuted and oppressed.

Youhave a valid point Philbailey, but what do others think.



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 00:57

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Message 43 of 69 in Discussion

The statement that it is aimed at those from mainland Turkey does not hold water when it must be obvious what the collateral damage to other foreigners is also nothing short of racial prejudice. Perhaps if the Turkish Cypriots who enjoy the benefits of living in the UK were at a stroke given only the same rights, or lack of them, as the British have here, they would soon be moving back to TRNC and would not be outnumbered by former mainland Turks.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 01:09

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Message 44 of 69 in Discussion

Cypriots are EU citizens who can move around the EU

EU citizens who move OUT of the EU cannot expect the same

Right or wrong it is a fact



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 01:13

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Message 45 of 69 in Discussion

Agree Deputydawg, and to philbailey, may I point out that technically the entire island of Cyprus is in the EU and both sides take lots of lovely money to improve the place. TRNC has received huge funds from EU to build roads, put in sewerage etc, etc, so although it is Occupied Territory, it still enjoys help. Why then should it deny E.U passport holders the right to a more permanent riight of stay and WORK. Currentlythey are throwing out internaitonal workers form universities etc and thereby downgrading educational facilities. So you see, we havne't moved OUT of the EU, we are still in it. EU recognises that by its donations, but TRNC does not recognise it where passport holders are concerned. Racisim? There are many who think that it is.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 01:20

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Message 46 of 69 in Discussion

msg 45 I think you summed up the situation yourself with your comment "so although it is Occupied Territory,

when you moved were you aware of this ?



sutcu


Joined: 21/02/2011
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 01:48

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Message 47 of 69 in Discussion

Are u stupid or what?



sutcu


Joined: 21/02/2011
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 01:52

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Message 48 of 69 in Discussion

No he is not . How would you like to have 700m becoming British citizen?



sutcu


Joined: 21/02/2011
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 01:53

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Message 49 of 69 in Discussion

I like you man



sutcu


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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 02:01

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Message 50 of 69 in Discussion

I like you man



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 02:06

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Message 51 of 69 in Discussion

What a stupid question indeed. I knew exactly where I was moving to and why, and personally to me the name of 'occupied territory' is a bit of a nonsense. The south of Cyprus is 'occupied territory' by the people who live in it. England is 'occupied territory' by the people who liv e there, as are the counties in U.K, including the one in which you live etc, etc.



But I wonder why it bothers you Mr Bailey? North Cyprus has many caring, intelligent immigrants who love the place and want to contribute to it because they believe in it. Having lived around the world, I don't have a problem with the true history of Cyprus, and nor why the north is currently 'occupied territory'. But then we don't all agree do we? If we did, the 'Cyprus Problem' would have been solved years ago.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 07:20

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Message 52 of 69 in Discussion

I think Mr Bailey is a GC sympathiser/apologist.. but there is no logic to his argument beyond - 'you came here, suck it up' which is no real argument at all. He doesn't try to argue that what they are doing is right in terms of not being a racist policy, just 'hey, shit happens and you must put up with it'.



Maz - the Cyprus problem is getting further from a solution as the TRNC continues to distance itself from EU norms and rules. Whether the TRNC government realise this, I'm seriously beginning to doubt.



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 15:19

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Message 53 of 69 in Discussion

Re msg33..Groucho it's not unique....Housing Laws re foreigners (Guernsey Channel isles)

1.can a foreigner buy a House in Guernsey...................Yes, but he/she may NOT occupy it..And only Let to Locals..Work permits are required even by locals.......(Right to Work Permit)

2.Can a foreigner Buy an "Open Market House" ,at 3 times the price......... YES

3.If a foreigner Marries a local can He/She live in local House ...Yes

4. Does the Married foreigner have local status. And the Vote .............NO.....

5.How long does it take for the Married foreigner to gain local status.And vote ......20 years married to same spouse.

Etc etc..However there is a way round all this . A bank balance no less than 17 million pounds... .



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 15:23

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Message 54 of 69 in Discussion

You missed my point

I feel if some of these laws had been used in the UK it would not be in the mess it is

see my msg 5



martinD41


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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 15:27

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Message 55 of 69 in Discussion

No, I get your point ..The Housing/Voting rules on my Island Home (Guernsey)are to my mind PERFECT!!



martinD41


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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 17:53

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Message 56 of 69 in Discussion

msg53,, (Addendum), Sorry I forgot,If you are found guilty of "Misdemeanour's" you can be "Deported" sounds similar to TRNC............... But it (Guernsey ) is recognised,Legal,and although "Not" part of the UK is a "Crown Dependency",and has a "Special" relationship with the E.U..



Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 18:10

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Message 57 of 69 in Discussion

Martin,

The Channel Islands are hardly a shining example of democracy, are they?



Groucho



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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 18:26

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Message 58 of 69 in Discussion

There is one reason and reason only that the Channel Islands are afforded special status and it is nothing more than money... which is nice.

I know Guernsey very well having had friends who lived there all their lives. The islands are very much smaller than Cyprus and have their own quirks and eccentricities but they seem to had those forever.

If they had encouraged folk to buy there live and sometimes work there I pretty sure they would be allowed to vote at some stage...

The government here seem hell bent on turning the TRNC into a backwater with backwards ways and no means... it's all very sad.



martinD41


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Message Posted:
02/03/2011 20:05

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Message 59 of 69 in Discussion

msg57 ...I beg to differ ,At least my Island Home is safe from immigration problems....



Msg58 Groucho,,,It is only since the early 80s that Money ie, "Offshore Banking" has made Guernsey a so called "Rich man's Island."..Before then, when Growing, Fishing and tourism ruled, the housing laws were just the same.

And, if a non local had been able to move there,they would still NOT get the Vote for 20 years.It is STILL as far as I know the only place in the British Isles(NOTICE I DIDN'T SAY UK) where if as a local you leave for more than 5 years consecutively ,you risk loosing your local status.........Must rush back soon



Rob



Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 20:33

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Message 60 of 69 in Discussion

This thread is getting attention elsewhere:



http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=33492&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 22:01

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Message 61 of 69 in Discussion

SO What?



Johnatcastle


Joined: 23/07/2009
Posts: 163

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 22:21

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Message 62 of 69 in Discussion

Ref Msg 53.

The point here is that the rules are clearly laid out and ahered to.

If you go to Guernsey and agree to the rules then that's fine.

The point of this thread (I think?) is that the rules (laws or whatever) were set down and people came here and abided by those rules. Problem here is that the rules change.

The law referred to (if ever it comes to fruition) could be made retrospective so that the people currently who have temporary residence could continue within the original guidelines and any NEW immigrants would have to abide to the new laws. Thus giving them the choice.

To deny citizenship purely on race is clearly racism. I understand Yorgozlu's point and it is a good one but it's extremely difficult to put the lid on once it's opened. They could always have a points system (like Oz) where you accumulate points for certain qualities you pocess, yes it may just be financial but could be skills based along with family, marriage etc.

cont:



Johnatcastle


Joined: 23/07/2009
Posts: 163

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 22:23

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Message 63 of 69 in Discussion

That would give the mainlanders no chance of getting in unless they were required (like Oz)

So if you needed labourers then they could come, if you needed doctors then lots of points for them and so on.

That way you get who you want when you want them. Leaving plenty of space for the local population to flourish along with the imported skills you require.

What do you think Yorgozlu??



martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 22:48

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Message 64 of 69 in Discussion

We In Guernsey do not deny citizenship purely on race,We deny it by choice!!We employ labourers,doctors ,bank staff, builders, as and when, and they are all licensed for a defined period ,,,Usually 2 yrs, and they cannot return to employment for a further 2 yrs...It's not a case of agreeing to the rules,it's a case of abiding by our LAWS...



yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 23:38

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Message 65 of 69 in Discussion

Johnatcastle;

That'd be a perfect way to go........................whooops,I bumped into wall...........again(Turkey).



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 23:46

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Message 66 of 69 in Discussion

But it is on a non-Guernsey-man basis which I would argue is race. But this discussion is not about Guernsey.



I just find it odd that a country (TRNC) that craves acknowledgement and recognition should do its utmost to harm its chances of ever getting it from the wider world by designing residency and citizenship rules that are at odds with EU standards.



I do think people from Guernsey should not be allowed in though...



Johnatcastle


Joined: 23/07/2009
Posts: 163

Message Posted:
02/03/2011 23:52

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Message 67 of 69 in Discussion

Ref msg 64.



That's EXACTLY my point!!

The LAWS are set down in statute and are not changed once someone has started the process. Wether you or I think they are fair or not is completely irelevant! If I know the laws and still want to come then that's my choice. The trouble arises when I make my choice give up my current life to start afresh, only to find a year or two down the line and the law has changed and I am now in limbo!! That's where some people may find themselves.



Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
03/03/2011 00:01

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Message 68 of 69 in Discussion

Gunersey, Australia, Canada and man y other places have rules which have been in place for a long time. Northern Cyprus has a habit of changing rules with no apologies.



Groucho, message 52 - I couldn't agree more, especially when one reads of the hatred filled comments on Cyprus-Forum.com. One can only hope that those who post on there are not adults to be taken seriously, or there is no hope for this island at all. If those who show such hatred are the people of the future in the south, then it would not be a place worth living. One can only pray for those who despitefully use others - and one must sadly remember that the south is Christian!!!



Work permits, Tem presidency, perm residency, Retirement Visas, Business Visas are all different categories but what I think the thread is here is to do with Citizenship which many thought was a road to follow. The change sin Governmental thinking is more regressive than progressive, and sad and disappointing.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
05/03/2011 01:18

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Message 69 of 69 in Discussion

The laws are still being made /changed as it is a relatively new and small country



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