Stuck in the North Cyprus!

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 10:34

Hello to all,

I’m stuck in the North without a paddle! In short I arrived at Kyrenia from Tasucu on the 1st July and was refused entry to the South because according to the Greek customs official I entered through an ‘illegal’ port. I’m racking my brains, what’s left of them, not that there was much in there in the first place! If there had been, perhaps I wouldn’t be in the position I find myself! I thought I’d researched the problem of getting to the South but I made two mistakes. Firstly I let my passport be stamped instead of a piece of paper and secondly I told the Greek customs official I intended to settle in the South! Naive I know but my excuses are, I was extremely tired, hot and my brain was ‘fried.’

In the stime I have been here in the North I have found nothing but kindness from both the British and Turkish peoples. But I have family and friends in the South and ultimately would prefer to reside in the South. I also have a property in the South lined up to rent and have

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 10:38

Good luck Eric you are going to need it Sorry FOR YOUR SITUATION.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 10:47

Did you not know that the TRNC is unrecognised?I hope it works out for you ,but I think you may as well be in "Alcatraz" as far as the "bubbles" are concerned................Did you not have a plan ..B..?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 10:49

Do you have an EU passport ?

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 10:58

Thanks araneae



Yes, I knew TRNC is not recognised



Yes, I have an EU British passport



I should add I have things in the pipeline which I cannot discuss here.



I would like to contact jock1 but cant send him a message! How many posts does one need to have access to members profiles?

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 10:59

erolz there is no problem wth him going over but I believe his van etc will not be allowed over. The problem is his goods van motor bike etc came through an " illegal port ".



May be if he went with just the van got the road tax paper and insurance at metahan then some one did the same with his motorbike things would be ok .



I would be willing to try doing this with him monday or tuesday next week ?



araneae@hotmail.co.uk

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:02

http://www.kibrisgazetesi.com/popup.php/cat/2/news/120125/PageName/Ic_Haberler



If above link from a newspaper regards you,RoC cannot legaly refuse your enter.It seems that the problem is with your vehicle/s.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:03

re msg 1



'Eric' I had to read up on your situation ... Unless you have a a parent or grandparent either born or resident for more than five consecutive years in the UK you do not have the same rights as other British citizens with regard to the EU :(



Where have you tried to cross over ? Have you tried at a SBA ( Sovereign Base Area ) crossing point ?



Have you tried to cross at a pedestrian crossing point such as Ledra ?



Has your passport had some sort of official entrance refusal stamp from the RoC ?



We need to know such info as we MIGHT be able to call a freephone EU advice line - as you MAY have rights.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:07

re msg 8 - I'm ASSuming you have a British Islands - Isle of Man passport..



As to the refusal of being allowed to cross - IF the vehicle is legally taxed and insured and the driver is an EU citizen and has the right to drive said vehicle then *I* can't see how crossing can be 'refused'



Do we have access to the FULL story ?

Navek



Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 2656

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:14

Hi EricCrapton,



"I would like to contact jock1 but cant send him a message!"



I've emailed jock1 details of this post, just need to wait till he's sobbered up



Navek

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:18

Well personally I would register a complaint to the EU ombusdman here, you have nothing to loose.

http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/home.faces

Whilst it may technicaly not be allowed specificaly under the Green Line regulations in terms of 'importing goods' I would argue that applying different rules to 'goods' imported via a 'legal' point of entry and via the north in this specfic case, that is personal vehical and personal goods is against the spirit and intent of the green line agreements and regulations. The purpose of the limit on goods via the green line is descibed as "the special rules should secure an equivalent standard of protection of the security of the EU with regard to illegal immigration and threats to public order, and of its economic interests as far as the movement of goods is concerned." Its just my view but I do not think alowing such an entry as in this case under the same rules as via a 'legal' entry point threatens the economic interest of the EU.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:21

OK, I've read the local news story- and indeed the issue appears to be the vehicle / possessions .. and it does appear the OP has tried to post at an SBA crossing point



Still like to know the EXACT legal reason given for refusal.

Navek



Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 2656

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:21

It would appear that some crossing points are more stringent than others.

Would it matter which crossing point was used?

Navek

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:23

[Cont] the following section seem relevant to me

" While taking into account the legitimate concerns of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus, it is necessary to enable EU citizens to exercise their rights of free movement within the EU and set the minimum rules for carrying out checks on persons at the line and to ensure the effective surveillance of it, in order to combat the illegal immigration of third country nationals as well as any threat to public security and public policy."

Is the RoC's refusal to allow entry on the same conditions as if via a 'legal' entry port in this case really a 'legitimate concern' re either ilegal imigration or a threat to security or public policy ? Such that it can negates an EU citizens right to free movement ?

Like I say I would register a complaint with EU ombusdman anyway. It wont take long and you have nothing to loose in doing so.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/smartapi/cgi/sga_doc?smartapi!celexplus!prod!CELEXnumdoc&lg=en&numdoc=304R0866R(01)

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:24

re msg 7 yes yorgozlu that article is me. there is also a follow-up article which was published a few days later. and there may be more to come!



Re msg 8 and 9 My passport is British not Isle of Man and officially I'm a resident of UK not Isle of Man. I have blog page if anyone is interested in reading it. I'm in the middle of writing a post, if anyone is interested, which will tell the whole story to date.



blog page link: https://www.blogger.com/blogin.g?blogspotURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ericcraptonshadow.blogspot.com%2F



Click on accepting adult content which will take you to the main page describing my journey through Europe.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:24

ErolZ



does the EU Direct hotline work from 'TRNC' ?



00 800 67 89 10 11



It's an international free phone number



Surely the first port of call would be the British High Commission .. Is / are the Vehicle(s) registered in the Isle of Man / mainland UK ?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:28

rules are rules,should not matter at what crossing point one might (attemp) cross.However,it does make a difference from officer to officer.

I have an English neighbour(male) who is married to a Russian.Last time we went over they refused her entery to RoC,even though she had been accross twice before.On another occasion,attempted to cross with TRNC 'ZT'(visitor) plates and was refused.Put on the UK plates in front of the officers and no problem.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:29

MM Just tried the phone number, it does ring so I assume it works ok. Certainly try the UK high comission in Cyprus, if you have not already. And the EU helpline but I would still say whatever the outcome, lodge a complaint with the Ombusdman anyway. Easy to do and they have quite considerable powers and will to investigate such things where other boides in the EU might not from what I can see from their web page.

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:33

Sorry, this URL is invalid



http://www.blogger.com:443/blogin.g?blogspotURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ericcraptonshadow.blogspot.com%2F

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:34

I've looked at the blog and it's really interesting .... I admire folk doing such voyages.





MY suggestion is that you are ( temporarily - if you like ) careful about references to 'borders' and 'south Cyprus' - esp. as you are trying to appeal to the RoC to gain entry .. !!!! ;)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:35

http://ericcraptonshadow.blogspot.com/ works ok



On ombusdman this is from their site



The European Ombudsman, P. Nikiforos Diamandouros, commented: "The citizens' right to move and reside freely in the EU is clearly one of the main achievements of European integration. The European Network of Ombudsmen has a key role to play in ensuring that citizens can exercise this right in practice. I am also encouraged to see that citizens consider the right to good administration and the right to lodge complaints with the European Ombudsman as very important. These responses strengthen the Ombudsman's role as a crucial link between European citizens and the EU administration."

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:36

Re msg 10 Thanks Navek



" " 11 I have things in the pipeline

" " 12 The reason given was vehicle entered Cyprus via illeagal port. But then so did I!

" " 13 I tried three crossing points! I also walked through Ledra and talked with customs.



motorbike registered in IOM, van in UK. I had appointment with British consul official on Monday and was told there was nothing they could do!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:37

The IMPORTANT thing to know is the EXACT LEGAL reasoning for refusal - and what is being refused.. sorry if it seems 'silly' but LEGALITY viz a vis the rights enshrined to an EU Citizen re freedom of movement are the key, here.

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:41

Eu/Un legislation: all citizens no matter what passport they hold are allowed to cross in person!



My legal argument will be I also entered illeagal port and I can pass but my possessions and vehicles cannot!!!!

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:44

I will not be dictated to by anyone. Recognised government or not!



Politics stinks!

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:44

eroz how come i get Προειδοποίηση περιεχομένου



Το ιστολόγιο που πρόκειται να δείτε μπορεί να περιέχει περιεχόμενο κατάλληλο μόνο για ενήλικες. Γενικά, η Google ούτε εξετάζει ούτε επιδοκιμάζει το περιεχόμενο αυτ&

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:48

re msg 22



>>motorbike registered in IOM, van in UK. I had appointment with British consul official on Monday and was told there was nothing they could do!<<



Sorry, to hear this, but STILL want to know the legal reasoning - I might be able to understand the IoM reg'd bike, but not the van ... I'm sure that it would be possible to re-register the bike ( to a UK address) - if THAT was a sticking point..

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:49

Like I say Eric, to me it seems like an abuse of the intent of the green line regulations re movement of goods to me. The intent is NOT to provide an 'excuse' to stop free movement of EU citizens. Of course thats just my personal view but I still think the body most likely to really consider and investigate sucn an issue is the EU Ombudsman, nationality of the head of it currently not withstanding. If you had a lorry full of good that you intended to sell as a business in the RoC that would be one thing, but your case is clearly not about 'importing goods' but is totaly about freedom of movement of an EU citizen. Of course common sense and 'legal reality' often are at odds.

Anyway I wish you all the best with your 'journey'. If you need a bed or anywhere to temporarily store a vehical , 4 wheeled or 2 in the North feel free to email me.

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:52

Greek legal point is my van and vehicle entered through a port that is not recognised (It does not exist!)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:52

araneae if you mean on the ombusdman link then try this one it should be english



http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/en/home.faces



you probably getting greek as default language cause the sites location identification based on IP is rubbish I would guess.

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:57

erolz: thankyou very much for your input and offer of a bed. Luckily a very good friend of mine has a property in Arapkoy which is where I am right now.



Incidentally, I have insurance for both vehicles and went out for a ride on my bike which is the first time I have used it since leaving Hungary nearly two weeks ago. It felt good

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 11:58

no erol its the blog the link started to open the I GOT



Το ιστολόγιο που πρόκειται να δείτε μπορεί να περιέχει περιεχόμενο κατάλληλο μόνο για ενήλικες. Γενικά, η Google ούτε εξετάζει ούτε επιδοκιμάζει το περιεχόμενο αυτού ή οποιουδήποτε άλλο

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 12:00

Eric the Greek Cypriot (not Greek) legal argument is based on a valid concern re the importing of goods via the green line that the EU would generaly support I think. Because entry points in the north are technicaly in the EU, but EU regulations can not be applied on such entries because the RoC has no effective control, they can limit such goods then crossing into the south. However it seems to me that there is a strong argument that this is clearly NOT the case in your senario and actually it is just an 'excuse' to limit your personal movement on a 'technicallity'. Again if you were driving a truck load of electronics goods for sale from North to south and tried to demand entry based on your right to free movement as an EU citizen within the EU, it would be one thing, but clearly this is NOT the case.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 12:07

araneae try setting your language setting for blogspot to english first using this url



http://www.blogger.com/language.g



there should be a drop down box with english as an option , then click the left hand button to accept the change. Then try going to http://ericcraptonshadow.blogspot.com/

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 12:11

Yes erolz, it is definitely not the case in this instance and I have moves in place to try to reverse the descision to not let me enter with my personal goods. On Monday I hope the legal point will be clarified by a TRNC solicitor who has a practice in Farmagusta and in London. If it is not that simple and if it is financialy possible the mater will be thaken to a higher level!

araneae


Joined: 24/06/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 12:14

great thanks erol

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 12:16

At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, even if it turns out that direct legal action is prohibited for whatever reason I would still make a complaint to the EU ombudsman. It doesnt cost anything and there is nothing to loose. Good luck and whatever happens enjoy your adventure as best you can.

flamefabs


Joined: 09/07/2011
Posts: 193

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 12:22

could think of a lot of far worser places to be stuck!

jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 13:16

navek....easy lad ...

eric have mailed you.

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 13:20

I've taken your advice erolz and just completed a complaint form and submitted it to the European Ombudsman.



flamefabs: I started thinking the same thing from my second day here in the North. There seems to be a general misconception around the world that all Turkish are bad! I have found nothing but the reverse, both here and in Turkey itself. If you have not seen my blog page, I am in the middle of writing a rather long post describing my experiences so far here in TRNC and in mainland Turkey.



One has to be adaptable in todays changing world. I'm not one to bury my head in the sand, living in the hope that all will be OK without doing anything about it. I've been working on solving my problem from day one and will not rest until my human rights are returned to me by the Creek Cypriot authorities ;-)

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 14:09

Eric;

If you fancy a ride in town and a drink in an appropriate place,you have enough posts to see my email or 0533 8739181



Sal

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 16:36

Good luck, Eric.



I think you should contact KISA in Nicosia



http://www.kisa.org.cy/EN/contacts/index.html



They are funded by the EU and [ ironically ] the RoC govt.. they will give you free legal advice... Call for an appt..



The Cyprus english speaking papers might want this story, too !!

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 16:46

Nick! How about you sell the vehicles in TRNC and use the money to buy new ones in the South after crossing over - problem solved!

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 18:44

Re msg 42. Thanks for that and worth checking out but my situation is purely political legislation that is not even used consistantly. Yes I'm sure the english language papers might be interested but I think the Turkish population/authorities are more interested.



Re msg 43. That is already under consideration and is one of the questions I will be asking when I speak with customs on Monday in Nicosia.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 18:48

If you intend to work/live in Cyprus

is it worth rocking the boat too much ?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 19:07

re 44



Eric



KISA are WELL averse in 'RoC' non-adherence to non-adherence to EU treaty rights...



whilst you feel this is political - and probably you are right - the KEY to your plight is resolution - based on - presumably - you having right of passage - with your goods.



Your intention to reside in the 'rump' RoC should have no bearing.



I meant the Eng land press - such as the CY Mail .... read by Brits and EU / govt officials ALL over the island !



>> Turkish population/authorities<<



But they aren't the ones stopping you crossing :(

EricCrapton



Joined: 30/12/2010
Posts: 325

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 19:22

Re msg 45. It is my human right to rock the boat if I feel it has been violated and it has!



Re msg 46. Thankyou, yes I knew what you meant.



'But they aren't the ones stopping you crossing :( '



Yes, again you are correct but it helps to get a majority not a minority behind my cause. so far I have been stopped countless times by person who saw the article. Even the chief of customs at Kyrenia port has read both articles