buying in north cyprus

lilaclady


Joined: 11/02/2011
Posts: 133

Message Posted:
19/08/2011 20:20

i was wondering if it is so risky to buy in north cyprus why have people bought so many apartments etc.can they lose them at some point in time,i am contemplating buying next year.but dont want to if my home would be at risk

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
19/08/2011 20:24

The only safe title is Turkish. Esdegar is arguably 'risky'.



There are many apartments for sale with Turkish Title.

Quarmby


Joined: 15/09/2008
Posts: 975

Message Posted:
19/08/2011 20:25

I assume you have been reading this forum for some time? I would think it is pretty obvious.

lilaclady


Joined: 11/02/2011
Posts: 133

Message Posted:
19/08/2011 20:43

yes i have been reading quarmby that is what i cant understand so all the apartment complexes like tatlisu lapta etc are a risky buy yet all apartments have been bought,i cant understand why people buy if they are so at risk

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
19/08/2011 20:55

As No1 says, the only safe title is Turkish.



However as it stands now, no foreigner will be given the Kocan.

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
19/08/2011 21:08

lilaclady the reason people bought them was the price, for the price of a garage in the uk you could have an apartment in cyprus .Worth the gamble maybe nothing is safe anywhere and you only live once.Black or red you might win or might lose.oh yes and when the island becomes 1 the prices will rocket lol

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
19/08/2011 21:55

fosterscan, you said the reason people bought them was the price? you are so wrong many victims paid over the odds! not realising the politics or the corruption of the place in 2003/4!



Now however it's 2011 lilaclady you should know all the problems if you have been reading most forums and understanding what the British and Commonwealth Office have to say! however if you like a game of Russian Roulette? Good Luck! If you have the sense to think about it!! the only safe title is "Turkish" and no "DEEDS" or "KOCHAN! will be given to any "FOREIGNER" so if your not Turkish Cypriot throw the dice and as fosterscan says wait till the price rockets

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 01:56

there is little solid evidence that buying "esdeger" title as such, carries any risk whatsover



only in the case of an unfavourable re-unification deal or turkey leaving the island is there

any chance of trouble, and the prospects for either eventuality are now extremely remote



however there are indeed substantial risks in purchasing any property in north cyprus, or

in south cyprus, spain, bulgaria...almost anywhere overseas in fact



I do not have space to describe some of these risks in detail, but they outweigh the real

or imagined fears over north cyprus exchange land, by a factor of many hundreds to one

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 02:36

trncvictim over the odds for what they got but compared to the south and uk very cheap 03/04 40k 3 bed villa !

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 07:58

dont see any risk with buying esdeger title on a appartment complex,in fact ive got one .

6 years ago it was a risk ,buying off plan etc ....now all built ,all occupied and all paid up taxes with title deeds in hand ...what will happen ???



free to buy one with title deeds and taxes paid,if you sat worrying about everything you will die ten years quicker anyway .



go buy ,do homework and enjoy your appartment with deeds.......listen to some of the doom and gloom mercahnts on here that left their brains on a plane in 2003 and 2004 you will never get on .



kav

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 12:28

TRNC victim, we are British and have our kochan for our Turkish title property. The poster asked a question please don't reply to them with untruths. You clearly know the goverment has never said or made such a rule as you are suggesting. It is nothing more than gossip.



Back years ago the TRNC goverment guaranteed the so called exchange/ esdger titles. Since the Orams case it has been made clear that that guarantee wasn't worth a thing.



The only safe title to buy is Turkish pre 74 or European pre 74. Re sale with deeds in the owners name.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 12:57

fosterscan..msg6..."When the Island becomes One the prices will rocket"





All that will happen is your cheap "Concrete Tent" will become an Expensive Concrete Tent.....And therefore become less marketable,or at least to the more discerning...

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 13:52

martind41 When to property issue is all sorted and the recession is over they will be expencive, as for concrete tents thats all that all houses are.Its just a shame it wont all be sorted in my lifetime.

Lilaclady look around and see whats about but remeber only gamble what you can afford too loose but the odds are in your favor.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 13:55

Blade/Firestarter,



You told me the same when I first joined this forum. On your reassurances and announcement that it was just the rumour mill, I purchased Pre74 Turkish Title . Guess what, it turned out not to gossip and after years of researching this topic I can confirm it is true. An expensive lesson to be learned.



As for the Government admitting that they are no longer giving PTP on all Pre 74, are you serious? As i have said before how could they possibly admit this? It would lead be proof of discrimination and what would it look like to the rest of the world? We are very happy to sell GC property but not our own!



Be aware that when you dismiss this information, people are encouraged to buy with all the consequences this entails. Stress, financial loss and housing worries. I wouldn't want that on my conscience but that's just me.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 14:07

msg13..I can assure you that not ALL houses are Concrete Tents, they are here I grant you.but if they cost next to nothing to build,next to nothing is what you get..

Tonyta


Joined: 11/06/2011
Posts: 122

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 18:04

Oh boy, what a rum lot you are, reading the above I am surprised there are any brits left on the island. I bought a villa off plan from a local builder, did some due diligence as to who he was and allthough there have have been problems. Nothing that you would not expect with any house purchase. The Kocan took some time to get, about three years after build but I could use the property in the mean time. If you get permission to purchase and intend to hold the property for a long time then go for it. If you are looking to make a quick buck, forget it.

Would also suggest you buy something that is built and has the correct paperwork.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 18:49

Tontya/Msg 16: 'Would also suggest you buy something that is built and has the correct paperwork.'



With this suggestion, do you mean 'pre '74 Turkish Title', or *Esdeger [so-callled 'Exchange']?



When are foreign potential buyers going to realise that if they commit to purchase, they will not receive 'Permission to Purchase' on the former? As far as the *latter is concerned, the international community have deemed that *this is an illegal purchase. This is the reason that the 'British & Commonwealth Office' have issued specific warnings - warnings which should definitely not be ignored, despite all the 'assurances' expressed in TRNC.



So, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the two sides - the TC's and GC's - buying land that the international community has agreed still belongs to the pre 1974 GC owner is, according to EU/UN mandates, tantamount to buying stolen property and, additionally, any foreign occupier is deemed to be trespassing.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 19:04

You need much more than due diligence Tonyta. You need a system that gives you PTP BEFORE you enter a contract, not 2-3 years later when you have all but paid



Not to mention a system that makes it a legal condition, that upon receipt of all monies, you get your deeds.



Registration of contract needs to take precedence over memorandums (1400 properties known to have memorandums in the TRNC) and finally advocates must be held accountable with a duty of care to their clients.



Until the above is implemented the only thing you might have on your side is lady luck.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 19:10

Why do so many TC's buy esdeger property ?



Look around most of the complex developments and there are plenty of TC residents, is it really that dodgy ?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 19:33

"...is it really that dodgy ?"



Yes it is.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 19:52

TC's are also having similar experiences as the following confirms:



Koop Bank threat to Turkish Cypriot home. Letter from Hüseyin Merçil



As a Turkish Cypriots I have felt safe in the TRNC.

I thought our people had suffered enough from attacks and being made into refugees.

Now I find history repeating itself, except that the one trying to force us out of our homes, is our own Koop Bank, supposed to be the bank of the people.

When I first bought the house in Olive Grove, to be honest, it was our life savings that went into it. I paid it in full and moved in during June 2005.

Now my children ask “Daddy, what will happen when the bank takes our homes. Where will we live? It is heartbreaking, and I say “don’t worry” but I wonder the same things myself.

The hardest part is that the bank gave the mortgage to the builder in August 2005, two months AFTER I paid for the house and moved in. On television the builder said that the bank looked at my contract before giving the mortg

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 19:53

so they knew the house was mine. The bank was invited to respond but they didn’t.



I support the government. The government control the bank. How can the government allow the bank to do this mortgage to my family.



I want the bank to tell me what I should say to my wife and children. I want to be proud of being a Turkish Cypriot, but how can I be proud when this is happening in my country to my family and my foreign friends.



I appeal to the government, the President and the Prime Minister to help us. The bank is in their control.



Hüseyin Merçil

Olive Grove

August 2011

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 20:18

Yet another victim of this dreadful system Bradus! when will this Government understand what they are doing to so many people! such a sad letter!



blade (mess 11)



"It's just gossip" Tell that to the many victims who have been refused their PTP on Turkish Title! perhaps you should be the one to be careful about telling untruths!

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 20:37

Msg20

I wasn't talking about unsafe land and buildings that is mortgaged through the bank even pre74 land that the bank has a claim to is "dodgy" irrespective if you have PTP or not.

I was speaking about the many people who have Villa's & apartments on esdedger who have had no problems and Kochan's have been transferred,... why would this be "dodgy" ?

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 21:18

"... why would this be "dodgy" ?"



Because if it's esdedger there is a Greek Cypriot owner (or descendants) of the land who will one day claim title & compensation. If in doubt about the possibility of that, ask the Orams.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 21:25

So how many others have gone through the "Orams" experience ?



Bear in mind there was no IPC when the Orams were put through the mill.



I know quite a few TC's who live in esdedger property and have Kochan in thier name but my question is if it was that "Dodgy" why would they buy it ?

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 21:31

Hector, i would ask the Orams but i wouldn't have the foggiest where to find them



There are not going to be any more Orams like cases because the ECHR put payed to that, also any descendants have got Bob hope or no hope because of that phrase the "passage of time"



The worst that will happen should there ever be a agreement between Stavros and his mate is compensation may become payable and should you be in a apartment then it would be divided between all owners so dont worry be happy )

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 21:41

Lets be perfectly clear about esdedger title. No one knows what will happen in the future. I can only guess based on what I've seen so far, that the TRNC government (or whoever makes the decisions for them) will have no regard whatsoever to those who have bought esdedger title land.



Those who have bought property on esdedger land have simply taken a gamble (even if they didn't realise that due to being told just how safe it was) that either there wouldn't be a settlement or that if there was all they would have to pay was a small amount of compensation for the land (based on 1974 land values?) and all would be well.



If esdedger land is so safe, why has the TRNC government decided that only TC's can have PTP and thus the kocan of pre 74 Turkish title land?



So based on that, how can anyone say that buying property in the TRNC is safe?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 22:02

Turtle,

I don't think you can compare the TC's situation with the British buyers situation when discussing esdedger property. The TC and GC view themselves as victims of the Cyprus problem as opposed to the British buyers that are never viewed as victims but profiteers of the situation who have further complicated the property problem.



Remember Mr A and the Orams? It was not just the Orams living on his land there were also 2 TC residents however he always saw them in the same light as himself, victims of the invasion. He has always maintained their right to live there until a solution is found.



A much more relevant question might be do you trust the TRNC Government to allow you to keep your Kocan in the event of any settlement?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 22:10

Will there be anymore Oram's? Who knows? Certainly not whilst ever the IPC is in place. However we have no idea as to how long this will be.



The only true safe buyers are those who bought Esdedger land which the IPC has now settled on.



As a matter of interest why can't the TRNC government inform the people that fall into this category? What would be the reason for with-holding such information, I wonder?

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
20/08/2011 22:14

I do Bradus otherwise there's going to be a long queue at the ECHR but this time ex-pats and just when they thought they had managed to offload the Cyp's to the IPC.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 03:37

fosterscan, message 6



yes the island would become one, if either:



a) against all the odds a reunification agreement like 2004 is accepted, so then prices will surge



b)...turkey leaves the island abandoning their settlers, no agreement required, 1960 constitution



both the above are extremely unlikely which is why I still believe esedeger is as safe as "houses"

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 03:46

and another thing,



as zoots/pikey says, and he is certainly no friend of the trnc,



"genuine turkish title is as rare as hen's teeth"



I frankly do not believe a lot of advertised "turkish title" really is



...and then you have the worry of perhaps being refused ptp



ededegar is safe, apart from the usual mediterranean ripoffs

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 03:49

..and to deal with the scammers anywhere in south europe

you need a good lawyer, a year of renting, and a cool head



so come on in, the water's lovely!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 03:53

andre514;

thats all fine all the while buyer, assumingly an eu citizen, does not have a property in another eu country,and assuming one that had sold the so called esdeger do have the equivalent in the southern part of the island to exchange,should what's against all odds happen.............one day............promises promises.........

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 04:03

yorg,



we went through all those dire threats and warnings during the orams case

and the net result was the court referred all new claims to the IPC



it might not go down well with many cypriots,

....but for the life of me I cannot see turkey leaving cyprus, come what may



so from a purely selfish viewpoint, ex-pat property is pretty safe

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 04:16

message 29,



you refer to british buyers as "profiteers" of the situation:



perhaps not, if they bought in 2007-2010 they've lost money



...they are similar to greek cypriot propagandists



in that both are "losers"

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 04:19

"ex-pat property is pretty safe" quote



where is Pauline Reed , trnc victim the Orams and the 1400 with a mortage on the properties ?



do not buy in Cyprus either side



RENT and enjoy

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 09:55

According to part of the ECHR judgment anyone who resides on disputed land and has improved it, built a house or a business, has rights too.

The people in trouble are in that position because of fraud in the TRNC, which the government refuses to do anything about. Talk about cutting your own throat with a blunt knife, but after all these years of isolation intelligentsia is not a by word amongst the hierarchy of the TRNC - to the shame of most of the population.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 11:32

message 38:



esdeger property as such is quite safe, for the reasons outlined above

...indeed the position has improved since "orams", while the talks are set

to fail mainly as a result of a hangover from the 2004 "non"



please note my remarks about the "scammers...in south europe" and

"best to rent for a year"



yes, there are mortgage fraudsters in the uk too and we all know of

shoddy and dishonest builders there,

and the shaking hand of the very old being guided to sign away their

property rights



while the robb-type outrage, and other scams in the north are also

prevalent in many southern countries:

take fraudster ian beaumont in the roc, and the deeds scandal there



this is what to watch out for, not the desperate machinations of the gc

loser-regime about to offer up the begging-bowl for a eurozone bailout



I'd agree the trnc government should have protected buyers properly,

but an endless winter of crunch and slump has driven away uk punters

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 14:18

Surely much of what is being said depends on your interpretation of the role of the IPC? There appears to be a very simplistic view that the IPC is no more than a mechanism for aggrieved GC for settling property disputes and allowing the new owners of GC property legal ownership. However this view fails to look at the bigger picture.



A key point of the ECHR’s decision to recognise Turkeys IPC as an effective domestic remedy was to highlight Turkeys ACCEPTANCE of responsibility for the occupation of the North, as well as confirming the rights of GC owners. Turkey is now legally and financially responsible for the occupation of GC properties and GC should have a remedy.



I am in favour of the IPC and view it as an effective remedy for helping solve the property dilemma. However as is common in Cyprus information is often not forthcoming. So far, most GC have settled for a stated sum of money but what is never clear is if it’s for loss of use or expropriation?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 14:18

Looking long-term, one has to ask if the high economic cost for Turkey in the future will be too burdensome to carry on? What might they have in mind to recuperate some of the money? Will the cost of occupation simply be too great for Turkey? How will they respond to pressure from their own citizens?



Finally, there are no suggestions that the GC have to use the IPC, it was made clear that the alternative was to wait for a solution to the Cyprus problem. Sadly most appear to have chosen this route.



Whilst great strides have been made regarding the purchase of disputed land, I would suggest it is not as cut and dried as some would have us believe.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 14:21

Bradus claims settled in via the IPC are for both loss of use and for the property concerned. The IPC will not settle claims solely for loss of use. You either settle for both or none.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 14:26

Bradus the fact remains that to date only one purchaser has lost as a result of the disputed title (the Orams), 10s of thousands have lost North and South for other reasons. Disputed title may yet cause some loss for some in the future but to date it is simply a non issue compared with the many many other problems, in North CYprus, In cyprus as a whole and indeed just about anywhere. If history is a guide any potential future purchaser should be much more concerned with the issues that have affected thousands of previous purchasers in the North rahter than an issue that to date has affected one, at least as I see things.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 15:12

Erolz, I certainly agree that the main reason for not buying in Cyprus (North or South) should be the many problems associated with deed transfer, build quality and fraud. However I still say that some dismiss the political issues too lightly. At the end of the day, we do not have a crystal ball and should there be any form of solution can one trust the very same Government to safeguard the interest of foreign buyers? Their track record to date might suggest otherwise. They hyave hardly supported the existing buyers?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 15:21

Erolz. And there in lies the rub.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 16:17

Bradus I am not saying dismiss the issue of disputed title deeds. What I am saying is that current risks affecting thousands of people today should be a greater concern than potential future risk that to date has affected one purchaser only.



We might not be able to trust Cypriot governments North and South to look after the needs of forigner buyers of disputed title property in any settlement, but there can be some confidence in the international community and in the ECHR to esnure they are not just made new victims to any settlement. Look at the failed Annan Plan as one example. Look at the rulings of ECHR on the IPC. The ECHR has said clearly that it can not support the creation of a new set of victims even to solve the issues of past ones and any settlement that did not take this into consideration would be unwise and I think even Cypriot governments realise this.

brandysour


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 16:36

We sold ours to Russians i will never buy in cyprus ever again to much hassle i would rather rent then buy.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
21/08/2011 20:28

bradus,



a "solution" can only happen if both sides can come to an agreement on

the crucial issues, no sign of that, the sides moved further apart since 2004



there is a "solution" by default as it were, both sides accept the status quo,

willingly or otherwise, and all gc/tc claimants are dead by 2074 anyway



don't bother yourself about the cost to turkey, the north is now or soon will

be more turkish than cypriot (until they must eventually merge, sorry yorg)

and the cuts in turkish financial support will eventually bite deep



finally in reply to brandysour, the crappier it all is, the cheaper and more

available property becomes in trnc ...as the market naturally adjusts itself

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 12:00

Bradus just because you had a bad experience it doesn't mean to say pre 74 turkish title is not given to anyone other than tc's.

If you can show us the link to where the goverment says this then please do. ( i think we have been here many times before) until they come out and clearly make the statement all your repeating is gossip.



Andre, what are you an estate agent? Maybe the Orams wished they had listened after being taken to court and having their lives turned upside down.

Where is that goverment guarentee now?

No property here was ever legally exchanged, what is it people don't understand about that? So if you are happy to buy something which someone else legally owns, thats your choice and you will have to live with that choice. But please don't tell people that it is 'safe'.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 12:14

Please read what I have said Blade/firestarter, there is no written evidence provided by the Government.........that is everyone's argument. If they came clean and admitted this covert policy then we would all be happy.



I am not repeating gossip I am repeating factual information based on many peoples experiences,advocate advice and even some Estate Agents are now coming clean.Yet again I ask you not to inform buyers that they will get PRE 74 PTP on this deed. Have you no conscience? Do you not realise the heartache caused by your continual denial of this fact.



Perhaps this has more to do with your OWN need to sell PRE 74?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 16:33

You are not repeating any factual information, thank you ,so we have that clear now.

I have a friend in the interior ministry so i think i should know if there were a so called ' covert policy' ,lol.

i am selling my property, which incidently has sod all to do with you, i will guarentee my title deed to any buyer, i am that confident.

But the issue here is not me or my property, its the lies which are being told to people without proof regarding pre 74 Turkish title. (HGPG are a classic example, all those who have a property problem. nobody listens to those of us who haven't!)

I have concience and clearly the only title i would recomend to buy is pre 74 Turkish or European which are internationaly recognised.

Just because you and some others came unstuck doesn't mean that all these titles are bad.

Stop missleading people with gossip cos you yourself have clearly said you have no proof, and no goverment minister or otherwise has said any such thing!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 18:07

For those of you now confused as to the truth regarding PTP on pre 74 can I suggest you use the best possible resources to confirm the truth.There is lots of information out there from many different sources. It is very easy to get the correct information from the horses mouth, so to speak. all those that have been refused.The Government are hardly going to admit to this are they? Hence not a reliable source. Try looking at all the pre 74 developments and ask those that really know............those that have been refused and have explored the issue.



Don't buy its simply not worth the risk of paying in full for a property you will never own.

keithr


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 720

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 18:28

Funny how the TC land in the "rump" ROC don't get any mention here ???

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 18:36

Well said Bradus! I agree simply not worth the risk or the worry buying either North or South brings! until the Governments sort out the many property problems on both sides of the border! sleep soundly in your bed, Rent, Rent and Rent again!

kevin


Joined: 08/08/2009
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 19:49

come tollk to me i can gev u advayz murat davman 05338704830

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 20:11

Blade/Msg 52: '...i am selling my property, which incidently has sod all to do with you, i will guarentee my title deed to any buyer, i am that confident.'



Please enlighten us all how you, as a foreigner, can possibly guarantee your title deed to any buyer, unless that buyer is a Turkish Cypriot?



Any 'guarantee' from you is worthless, as if any foreigner buys your property, he/she must make their own application to the TRNC 'Council of Ministers' for their approval of 'Permission to Purchase' - [PTP].



Your title deed cannot be transferred to your buyer 'as of right' - in fact, your buyer is almost 100% likely to be refused PTP - simply because the government does not want and will not allow any more [genuine] pre 1974 Turkish Title property to fall into freehold foreign ownership. There is very little genuine pre '74 TT property available in TRNC, and what there is, the government (covertly) has decided to reserve for Turkish Cypriots only.



However, I wish you well!

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 20:36

I asked a question on "property Market on trnc" and I did not get a satisfactory answer.I also read this thread and I am confused. I have the following questions:

1. I am interested in buying land near bogaz, 1300metres from that huge hotel next to bogaz. How do I find out if the land belongs to a gc? And if yes who is the legal owner? The gc,the trnc,who?

2. How much is the land estimated over there? I am talking about the land that is between bogaz,yarkoy and safakoy? Is it worth investing? Do you thing that the area there will be developed due to the fact that there is a huge hotel being constructed in safakoy along with other projects?

3. I received an answer from busy bees saying that in that area prices per donut might be around 15000 sp which in my opinion sounded very underpriced! If I take into consideration that one donut is almost 2 plots then it's a great opportunity.

Thanks

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 20:53

Be in like Flynn, I'd say!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:01

Buy a donut at your peril, I'd say Rent, Rent, Rent again!

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:15

get it bought if you got a title ....EU wont be around much longer anyway .....and has for the euro .....soon there will only be the lira and the pound ......



well carlsberg dont do politics



kav

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:27

Sorry meant donum

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:30

it,s donum not donut.



trncvictim have you signed in as flynn31 ,i reckon you are the donut ,becouse you have been busted



sorry but the donut gaff has given the game away,shame on you .



musin



long live the kktc

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:34

Please check my post above, I meant donum and why the hostility? I just asked a question!! Sorry if I am offending anyone!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:38

musin (long live the kfc)!



Are you psychotic? perhaps you need to go to a good kfc psychologist? cos you sure sound like you need help

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:39

R.E.N.T

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:41

Don't worry Flynn31 musin seems a little disturbed tonight! (could have had a bad day at the office in London)!

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:43

Once again, I hope I haven't offended anyone! I think I was very clear on what I was asking!!!

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:52

Flynn31 you certainly didn't offend me more than likely a bankers convention upset musin!



as moxie say R.E.N.T I'm shouting it from the rooftops "FOR YOUR HEALTH/WEALTH'S SAKE BUY NOTHING EITHER NORTH OR SOUTH OF CYPRUS!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:07

trncvictim



you should stick to one id ,don,t think you are smart enough for any more.





musin



long live the kktc

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:09

Its seems strange to me that it's all woman who are advising you to rent, where are all the rent boys )

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:14

It seems that I am caught in the middle of an argument? For the last time I hope I haven't offended anyone. If anyone can answer my questions or can help me find more info concerning my questions please do so. If not please stop messing with my posts musin.thanks

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:21

Sorry Flynn31, in answer to your question 3 msg 58 i think that is vastly overpriced because i got 3 do-nuts and one free for £2 when i was at Skeggy the other day.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:26

MUSIN M



Get in touch with the Admin would be your best bet! I have only one ID and you obviously need help!



cooper (mess 71)



You always make me smile! (perhaps it's because some of us women have lost our other half's with the stress of buying in the TRNC) and don't want anyone else to ever be in our position!!!!! so we keep plodding on!

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:27

Thanks cooper! Smart answer! I am sure that you will have fun telling your friends about it tomorrow. What is sad though is the fact that you can check with the admins and they can confirm that I am not the person who think I am. Also as far as the donut is concerned I am using an iPad (search it up in google you will see what an iPad is). It has an auto correct feature which I haven't disabled. That is why the donum was changed to donut. But I like your humor..keep it up...until you decide to answer my questions. Thanks for your hospitality as well in this forum...is it like that in Northen Cyprus???

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 23:20

Flynn,



in short all land in Northern Cyprus is referred to as TRNC Title. However the reality is that the land falls into 2 main categories.

1. Pre 74 Turkish Title. This is often referred to as undisputed land because at the time of the Turkish Invasion/intervention it was owned by a Turkish Cypriot and not one of the Greek Cypriots who fled to the South leaving their home. Unfortunately this land/property is no longer given permission to purchase. It should be avoided as unless you are TC you run the risk of paying in full but never owning it legally.

2. The homes and land left by the GC that fled to the South and has now been developed by the TRNC. Sometimes described as disputed land. No one knows what the political implications in the future might be for the foreign owners of this land.



Land is obviously cheap for a reason. Do a quick search on the Cyprus Conflict it will make it clearer. Having said this the main problem you will encounter is corruption and fraud.

good l

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 23:31

bradus,



agree totally with your comment about corruption and fraud



but I don't think that was what lilacladyboy was "worried" about,

when she said she wants to hold on to her ass-ets

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 23:33

Bradus thank you so much for your reply, really appreciate it. So if there is disputed land issues with land owned bu GC's then I would assume that Greek cypriots have the pre 74 title deeds. In that sense can I buy prpert in north from a gc which has the title deeds? Thanks

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 23:33

I have to be honest here....



I would'nt invest a single lira in the TRNC and bitterly regret all investments I have made here.

MoonageDaydre


Joined: 09/07/2011
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:17

Evryone here has talked about Esdeger and pre-74 land.

What about TMD land, what's the difference between Esdeger and TMD?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:20

MoonageDaydre at the simplest level Esdeger land has some sort of 'balancing land' in the South and TMD does not. It is not quite that simple but thats about as simple as it can be explained in one or two lines.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:21

I think esdedger and TMD are the same now,... but I may be wrong though ?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:23

Flynn,

neither side would recognise your transaction only TC and GC can exchange by way of the Immovable Property Commission. I get the impression that you think that land was exchanged by the GC and TC? It wasn't both Governments did what they wished with their peoples property. The TRNC GAVE some to the military, politicians and other upstanding members of their community (TMD DEEDS, risky)and also allowed their people to hand in their southern deeds in exchange for Northern land or homes. (ESDEGER DEEDS, potentially risky)



The GC has always stated it is holding the land/homes of the TC until there is a solution but in reality most of it appears to have been compulsory purchased and built on.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:27

Turtle the deeds themselves used to say if they were TMD or Esdedger, but a farily recent change does not now show that difference on the deed itself, in that sense they are all the same now, but they are not the same in terms of thier 'history'.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:28

Isn't it a pity that this "balance" was decided by the respective Governments and not the individual rightful owners on either side of the divide.

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:33

So a gc or a tc cannot decide for their land???. Wow!!! A tc can only sell to a gc and vice versa?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:34

I new erol would put me right

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:35

Bradus there are many 'pities' in Cyprus' recent history. It is a pity that each community sought exclusive futures for the island and not inclusive ones that both could share in, but there it is. THe islands history is littered with 'pities' and many pre date 74.



Esdeger is called 'exchange' title not becuase it represented an agreed exchange between the indivdual pre 74 (GC) owner and the post 74 (TC) owner of land in the North and South. It is called exchange in that the TC owner of land in the South, after 74, agreed to exchange their rights to their land in the South for land allocated to them in the North by the TC authorities. The exchange therefore is between the TC owner and the TC authorities that took effective control of pre 74 GC land after 74.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:41

Flynn31 niether side recognises the deeds issued by the other. You can find a GC who lost land in the North post 74 and agree to buy that land from him in a private contract between you. However the RoC will not register such a sale on their deeds, nor will the TRNC recongise you as the owner of said land. Similarly you can find TC who lost land in the South after 74 and agree a sale with them as a private contract between you, but the RoC will not recognise such a transaction on their deeds. According to them that land is controlled by their 'property guardian' body and is being 'held in trust' for the TC owner pending a settlement. In reality much of it has been used and is being used in various ways by various people.

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:47

Unbelievable!!!!! Maybe that is the reason of the very low prices of land at yarkoy and ...maybe gc land or disputed land?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:50

Thanks for explaining that in a better way than I could Erolz. Hopefully it will help Flynn get a better grasp of the situation. Flynn it is complicated and when you try to explain in a few words you lose so much of the history and important content.Do read about the Cyprus problem and the history of the island. Start your search from the late 50's.



Please also read about the problems of buying in Cyprus, especially be aware of the laws which fail to protect buyers and the terrible conveyancing procedure which seems to actually encourage corruption.. I am not saying don't buy, but just be aware of the pitfalls so that you can make an informed decision.

Flynn31


Joined: 17/08/2011
Posts: 12

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:53

I will do that. Bradus and the rest thank you very much or you advise on this matter. Thanks

PhilUK


Joined: 31/03/2010
Posts: 236

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 01:08

here's my understanding of the title situation.

In the eyes of the Government here or in Turkey-all title deeds are the same, none 'better' than others.

They don't have ' TRNC title' or 'pre 74' stamped all over them-which is a surprise to many.

frankly I don't care if TRNC deeds are not recognized in the US, or the UK,It's irrelevant.

Buy resale with deeds.

I stand to be corrected here- but can anyone tell me of anyone who has bought resale with deeds of any description who has lost their home?

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 01:14

Susan Msg 1 - It will always depend on what you classify as a risk.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 11:24

TRNCvictim msg 74 I do have a habit of making woman laugh but it's nothing to be proud of because it's normally when I drop me pants

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 12:42

message 94:



it also depends on who was behind the e-mail doesn't it?



as patrick moore used to say: "...the truth is, we just don't know"

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 16:51

Msg 4, why do you think?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 17:24

bradus/blade



Easy way to say whether Blade is right in saying no problem for non tc buyers getting turkish title,or whether there is a problem.



Patara city has property for sale that is turkish tiltle and some that are not.At the moment on Stringers.



http://www.stringerestates.com/pr_lists.php?cmbType=All&cmbBed=All&cmbLocation=19&cmbPrice=All&opt=search&which=quicksearch&submit.x=32&submit.y=12.

and

http://www.stringerestates.com/pr_lists.php?cmbArea=&cmbType=All&cmbLocation=19&cmbBed=All&cmbPrice=All&opt=search&start=10



There is bound to be someone out there with a property in Patara city turkish title who reads this and can confirm they have kocan.



I do note however that the two turkish title advertised do not say 'kocan available' unlike the two non turkish title which do.