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Watermaid vs Chlorine Pool

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Cinderella


Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
15/11/2008 19:02

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Message 1 of 26 in Discussion

Any advice on the advantage and disadvanges would be grateful. I have heard that Watermaid has to run longer than a Chlorine Pool. Due to the excessive electricity bills Im wondering whether to switch back to a Chlorine Pool.



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 08:24

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Message 2 of 26 in Discussion

As someone who helped introduce saltwater pools in general and Watermaids in particular into TRNC, I was all for them. We had always known that during the hottest months the hours that they needed to run were quite high - easily 12 hours per day or more. In order for the Watermaid to run, the pump needed to run as well. Whilst the Watermaid only consumed about 100W the pump consumed 750W, or more, depending on the size of the pump. Since electricity costs have more than doubled since Watermaids were first fitted here, the cost of running one has become unacceptable for many people. We have been trialing for the last 9 months a freshwater system known as Aligator, which uses silver/copper oxide to carry out bacteria and virus sterilization and algae prevention. This system needs to run for only 6 hours per day, maximum and is therefore a cost effective alternative to a Watermaid or similar salt water chlorinator. Wear and tear on the cell is also much less on an Aligator.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 08:40

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Message 3 of 26 in Discussion

I seem to have trouble with the pumps...I've had to have 4 repairs to Nozbart pumps so anything that reduces hours of running has got to be good.



Have now gone over to an Astral Victoria pump and am keeping my fingers crossed...



We have a watermaid not based on cost but on the fact that our daughter has a sensitivity to chlorine and a watermaid pool is fine whereas a chlorine one is no good... her skin reacts very quickly to a "normal" pool...



A chlorine pool will probably be easier and cheaper to run and a lot easier to get a maintenance company to look after adequately... Watermaids tend to make for lots of shrugging of the shoulders and blame on the hardware by boys who want to spend a few minutes tending your pool (seconds if you are not in residence)...



Please note this comment does not apply to TRNCVaughan or Octopus Pools who I have always found to be conscientious and givers of good advice.



Cinderella


Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 08:58

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Message 4 of 26 in Discussion

Many thanks for the replies. How long does a chlorine pool have to run in the winter vs summer. Obviously with the rising cost of electricity this is a real concern for us and want to make sure we get it right. Many thanks again.



Cinderella


Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 09:01

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Message 5 of 26 in Discussion

TRNC Vaughan How much would it cost to install the Aligator system for a 10 x 5 overflow?



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 09:06

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Message 6 of 26 in Discussion

Chlorine pools don't need to run for very long at all but if they are the overflow type then this is how you keep the water looking detritus free... as the overflowing washes the dust, leaves, feathers and bugs off the surface into the gutter for trapping and filtering out....



So when you are swimming it's nice to have it running... Overuse will hammer electricity, the pump and water evaporation is increased... you increase the surface area in contact with the heat...



One other thing... as well as most of them using lots of electricity, internal pool lights attract flying insects so keep the use to a minimum... don't be tempted to put them on for a "lovely lighting effect" too often...



Cinderella


Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 09:57

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Message 7 of 26 in Discussion

Hi our pool has been put on winter mode i.e. the level of water has been dropped so the overflow is not working. Basically it looks like a skimmer pool. I have been told this saves water and pumps only work for two hours. Just want to make sure I understand it all.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 10:06

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Message 8 of 26 in Discussion

Cinders



Unlike a skimmer pool an overflow on low water level won't remove the stuff landing in your pool surface so it will build up a bit more than usual... this is not a really big problem. Regular skimming with a net is all it takes.



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 18:38

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Message 9 of 26 in Discussion

An Aligator system uses a tiny bit of chlorine (less than a Watermaid) to oxidize fine solids like dust, skin flakes, etc.

Hand chlorination and chlorinators like Watermaids chlorinate water to 3ppm or thereabouts. Aligators are hand chlorinated to less than 1ppm (drinking water strength) the silver/copper oxide does the rest.

Aligators cost 850 supplied and fitted.



kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
16/11/2008 20:52

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Message 10 of 26 in Discussion

A normal pump will circulate in 2 hrs around 20 tons, max 25 tons of water. thats around 25% of your pool water. thats not much.



go for solar pool pumping and you dont need to worry.

AS a solar pump works from sunrise to sunset, you have enough time for all watermaids and alligators...

after 5 to 6 years the system will pay back and your pool is pumped for nothing.

if electricity costs rise, you are in profits earlier...



Speck, KSB, Astral pumps... forget the others...



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
17/11/2008 10:51

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Message 11 of 26 in Discussion

Pool industry rule of thumb says that the whole body of water in a pool needs to be circulated at least once, preferrably 1 and a half times, in any 24 hours. Say 80 tonnes of water in a pool = 120 tonnes to be circulated in a 24 hour period. Pump rated at 15 tonnes/hour = 5.33 to 8 hours.



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
17/11/2008 11:09

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Message 12 of 26 in Discussion

Pool industry rule of thumb says that the whole body of water in a pool needs to be circulated at least once, preferrably 1 and a half times, in any 24 hours. Say 80 tonnes of water in a pool = 120 tonnes to be circulated in a 24 hour period. Pump rated at 15 tonnes/hour = 5.33 to 8 hours.



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 10:11

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Message 13 of 26 in Discussion

That should read 5.33 hours per day minimum, 8 hours per day optimum.



This fits in very well with an Aligator system which requires 6 hours per day maximum (8x4m pool) but not enough for a salt water chlorinator which can need 12 hours per day, or more, in summer. DIY maintenance of an Aligator is also easier than on a Watermaid as the very hard water in TRNC causes problems with Watermaid cells but, for technical reasons, not Aligators.



Groucho,

Watermaids produce chlorine to 3ppm just the same as by-hand chlorination. Your daughter has probably had problems in pools which have been over chlorinated or recently "shocked". Aligators do use a very little chlorine, 1ppm or less, and this is UK drinking water strength, to oxidize suspended solids (dust etc.). Aligators also never need shocking, algaecide or floccing.



markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 12:01

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Message 14 of 26 in Discussion

The longer you have the pump running on an overflow pool, the higher your evaporation will be



I would dread to think how much water you would loose running water over your ridge tiles for 12 hours a day in summer, not to mention the extra chlorine that would evaporate due to the larger area expossed to the sun.



Drop the level of your overflow pool by 6 inches and get a solar cover (about 100 for an 8x4) - you will use far less chlorine, the pool will keep much cleaner, evaporation will be minimal, and your pump will only need to run for 4 hours a day summer, 2 in the winter - this is the most economical and "green" way of running a pool in my opinion.



Mark



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 12:29

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Message 15 of 26 in Discussion

Hi Mark,



Where do you get "4 hours a day summer, 2 in the winter"? Is it from personal experience? This is a lot less than the industry recommendation and you could be inviting problems with the health/cleanliness of your pool, particularly in the summer.

Pump running is not just about filtration but also about the circulation of water and the even distribution of chlorine, or whatever other chemical is in use. "Dead" areas (corners, steps etc) which don't get much circulation at the best of times may become algae traps if you don't run the pump for long enough. I certainly do agree with you though about taking a pool off of "overflow" when not in use to reduce evaporation.



markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 13:13

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Message 16 of 26 in Discussion

Vaughan



That's what our pool (that Octopus maintain) has been running on since July when we got our cover.



The water has always been crystal clear, and didn't go green like so many this summer.



I think the reduced breakdown of chlorine, due to the cover stopping direct sunlight, has helped.

Also the fact that the cover has kept the dust, insects and birds off, has kept the water much cleaner than before.



Mark







Mark



ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 13:38

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Message 17 of 26 in Discussion

Call me an old cynic,...



but I have always thought that 'Industry Recommendations' were established to enhance the profitability of contractors and suppliers, not to help customers reduce costs within a safe 'window'.



I have yet to hear of any pool owners, their families or visitors suffering from ear infections, skin or breathing complaints, etc etc.



Till I do, I will try to reduce my costs as others do.



In the UK the latest 'In Thing' is to have a natural swimming pond with frogs, fish, lilies, mud, duck sh*t, etc. Not a chemical in sight!

I've never heard of any lake swimmers, including the Serpentine in Hyde Park, ever suffering any ill effects.



(no disrespect to pool contractors on here who give a lot of advice & info!)





Rob



Cinderella


Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 13:45

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Message 18 of 26 in Discussion

Mark where did you get your pool cover from? Do they sell them in North cyprus?



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 14:06

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Message 19 of 26 in Discussion

Hi Mark,



It may be that the cover stops the chlorine breaking down as fast as it would in direct sunlight and this is compensating for the reduced pump run times.... Glad to hear that between us we are keeping your pool in good shape.



markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 15:27

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Message 20 of 26 in Discussion

Cinderella



We bought our on-line in the UK, and brought it out as oversized bagage with CTA (8x4 weight 15kg so no extra charge)



I reckon it's already paid for itself in tankers & electrictity saved, and we only got it in July



Also, in October the temperature was 26-7c, very pleasant swimming, whilst neighbours were 19c.



Another spin-off is that we don't get birds sitting on the house/railings crapping everywhere



The best money saver I have ever bought, I guess that's why no one sells them in the TRNC !



Mark



Cinderella


Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 17:22

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Message 21 of 26 in Discussion

Hi Mark, Many thanks will check out a few websites and see what I come up with.



markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 17:49

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Message 22 of 26 in Discussion

http://www.poolwarehouseuk.com/products.asp?category=Solar+Covers&subcategory=Blue+odd+sizes



Mark



kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 18:44

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Message 23 of 26 in Discussion

Mark and Rob,

a pool cover IS a good thing.

your pool will be 40+ degrees in summer!!

dont guess about"recommendations", just ask fe wikipedia about the necessary levels of chemicals and recommended circulation time.

if you dont "hear" about any sicknesses, Rob, then it might be because nobody tells you. if iam sick, i go to my doctor.

often these chemical related sicknesses are eg. stomach problems.

you rather blame the last restaurant you have been in than the hotel pool or even your own pool...

lakes and rivers and "swimmimg ponds" are stable because the bacterias, mussels and plants are cleaning the water.

Cinderella:

buy a cover.

follow the guidelines or 1. dont backwash as suggested, 2.reduce pump running time, reduce chemical usage...until you fall ill and then TELL ROB.

if you dont like that, buy

http://www.poolstore.co.uk/shopscr350.html

and give it to your pool boys.

it is to be expected that they have no clue how to use it.



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/11/2008 11:26

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Message 24 of 26 in Discussion

Ref msg 17, please take a look at:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_long_should_your_pool_pump_and_heater_run_each_day



kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
19/11/2008 19:13

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Message 25 of 26 in Discussion

note:

pool pump ratings are done on a certain "static lift", eg 20 tons @ 5 meters.

that info MUST be found ON the pump or in the manual.

manual was not supplied?....ask your pool guy and if he cannot answer, sack him.



if your filter pressure rises to high, because you did not backwash properly, the circulation power decreases sometimes dramatically, especially with cheap chinese pumps (the ones without or only glued label on.... )

these chinese pumps should be immedialtely changed as they cost you up to 200 STG a year more energy as good ones.

(dont call me for that, i only deal in DC pumps)

Peter



Cinderella


Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 14

Message Posted:
19/11/2008 19:28

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Message 26 of 26 in Discussion

Thank you everyone for your advice, views and guidance. This has been an informative thread and pleased to say I have learnt something new.



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