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Hasan Sungur, Head of the Estate Agentsí Union, answers his critics

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malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 14:46

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Message 1 of 79 in Discussion

In response to Hildy's criticism on Cyprus44, Hasan Sungur has given North Cyprus Free Press an exclusive interview in which he confirms that Hildy IS right and that the Incesu site does NOT have a building permit. Read more at http://northcyprusfreepress.com/2011/10/26/hasan-sungur-head-of-the-estate-agents-union-answers-his-critics/



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 15:08

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Message 2 of 79 in Discussion

An informative and interesting article.



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 15:14

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Message 3 of 79 in Discussion

A very difficult interview which in total took a lot of hours in gathering information and collating that information . I wanted to be fair to both sides.



ang1706


Joined: 28/01/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 16:09

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Message 4 of 79 in Discussion

I see this as a positive step and by his words that the homeowners are innocent victims, could the wheel be turning at last. After all look what position he holds!!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 16:15

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Message 5 of 79 in Discussion

Hasan Sungur is one of the few TC landowners to say that he will issue kocans to victims, albeit for the cost of finishing the two villas as per failed contract with the "builder" (I've seen the properties), i.e. £140k. Pity about the confusion which seems to require an additional £140k payment to the "builder".



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 16:43

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Message 6 of 79 in Discussion

I don't really understand your comment malsancak. Are you saying that the landowner should not expect anything for his land? When you say the'builder' do you mean Yucelgazi?



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 16:57

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Message 7 of 79 in Discussion

Msg1,



Excellent article, very informative.



wyn



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 17:23

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Message 8 of 79 in Discussion

I have been following this post from start to beginning. Something is puzzling me, why do the victims have to cough up for the 2 unfinished villas (£140,000) before they would get their Kojans? Have they not payed most of the money for their villas anyway? Seems also because they have been left to decay, and have not been built properly they are going to have to spend a lot of money on them to make them habitable (or does this amount include finishing off theirs?)



As for the confusion re paying the builder £140,000, why would anyone pay him another penny?? I see this was not mentioned in the interview?



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 17:33

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Message 9 of 79 in Discussion

Correction start to finsh that should read opps!



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 17:41

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Message 10 of 79 in Discussion

Honeybee, I dont understand that either and I wrote the article. Clearly, the landowner has a rght to expect two completed villas, just as every owner has a right to expect a completed villa with their Kocans too., but the bulder deserves nothing, unless malancak means the builder who will finish all the properties., I have not been on the site but looking from the road, the villas are at varyig states of build and clearly some wll need more work than others. Factor in the dact that deterioration will have taken place. Clearly there is much to be thrashed out, between all parties involved. As I said at the end of my article 'wouldn't time be better spent in finding a solution than apportioning blame.



In an ideal world everyone would come out a winner. Maybe we do not live in an ideal world but to at least try to ensure that there are no losers in this situation should be the aim.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 17:45

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Message 11 of 79 in Discussion

Honeybee,

Buyers have contracts with Yucelgazi and Hasan Sungur is not a party to these contracts. The buyers can sue Yucelgazi if they so wish and good luck to them but the land is owned by Hasan Sungur and he can sell it altogether if he so wishes but he is owning up to his *MORAL* responsibilities and trying to help. His agreement is to hand over the land to Yucelgazi when he builds him the two villas which are not finished yet. So why should he hand over his land to others without getting his two villas finished? He is a victim like other buyers except that he has the upper hand if he wishes to be unscrupulous. Let us be fair and give credit where it is due.

ismet



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 17:52

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Message 12 of 79 in Discussion

misunderstood, yes exactly as I wrote, builder - Cafer. To repeat, I believe Hasan Sungur should have his two villas finished as per the original contract in exchange for the buyers receiving their kocans. I also believe that the buyers should have their villas according to the contracts BUT because of the way it is here, Sungur holds all the cards and the best deal is the original £140k in exchange for kocans. There seems to have been some recent changes to this deal which were not mentioned in the article. Any additional information on that?



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 18:02

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Message 13 of 79 in Discussion

Elko2 Sorry i disagree with you about let us give credit where it is due. Hasan Sungur is not totaly innocent in all of this. It states in the interview that, he THOUGHT a building permit was obtained, and he gave the builder several years extension on the contract to finish the villas. Yes of course he wants his two villas in exchange of his land, but surely if you have a invested interest you would check the build permit , and question why the build is taking so long?



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 18:14

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Message 14 of 79 in Discussion

No deal has been reached as far as I know. I asked about solutions and some have been discussed I do know.



The last one, which sounds like the best one so far is as I understand it is still on the table and still feasible as far as I am aware. Bear in mind I have never been involved in any talks about possible solutions. However, I do know, because Mr Sungur told me this, he wants to hear from all the purchasers with any ideas they may have about possible solutions.



I am not legally trained, but surely if Cafer no longer has a Contract with Mr Sungur, he is in no position to call the tune? The one cause of the delay is the ongoing court case Hildy has taken against Yucelgazi and Sungur jointly, I have no idea what stage it is at and this was not discussed in the interview for the very reason it is still ongoing. It was not a condition put in by Mr Sungur, it was my decision not to ask about it, I can get myself into enough trouble with the courts about my own case.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 18:22

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Message 15 of 79 in Discussion

Surely Hildy's court case would be cancelled if this secret final solution were implemented, unless it included paying Cafer £140k of course. Or is that the sticking point?



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 18:33

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Message 16 of 79 in Discussion

Honeybee, clearly Mr Sungur accepts your criticism, however having once completed his side of the Contract he left the builder to get on with his side. He gave two one year extensions to the Contract, at the end of the second extension the Contract ended. At that stage he could have just reclaimed the land, he didn't. The whole point of having someone else develop your land, rather than doing it himself is an indication he did not have the time. Yes he took his eye off the ball, he is however doing his best to find a solution. He has stated publicly, through the article, he will get the Build Permit, he will gvie individual Kocans on the plots when a solution is found.



As Ismet says, he does not HAVE to do any of these things legally, he feels the need to morally. He is stepping up to the plate. Now Honeybee, everything you say is correct, however, perhaps like a lot of us, he thought giving the builder time was the answer. We all have done it. HISS..



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 19:14

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Message 17 of 79 in Discussion

msg. 13

Honeybee,

You have no contract with Hasan Sungur and what he does is his business, none of yours as far as the legal side is concerned. So the presence or absence of the building permit is irrelevant as far as any claim you may have against HS.

ismet



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 19:48

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Message 18 of 79 in Discussion

Ismet, as far as I can see Hasan is, and always has been, responsible for what occurred on HIS property. Correct me if I'm wrong and this doesn't apply to the TRNC, but if you allow drugs or prostitution on your property then you are responsible for this lawbreaking. The important term is "allow". If you didn't know about it then perhaps it would be different. According to the NCFP article, Hasan knew that a building permit was not in place.



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:01

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Message 19 of 79 in Discussion

I would like to point out, i am not one of the victims of 'incesu' as i send previously i have been following the post and observing each side, and merly trying to understand the situation. He didn't have a contract with the purchasers, but he did have a contract with the builder. I understand he was a very busy man, so to safe guard his interest's and that of the purchasers, why did he not appoint someone to act for him to oversee the project.



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:18

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Message 20 of 79 in Discussion

In fairness it says " He explained that although Yucelgazi had not obtained the Build Permit, something he was not personally aware of until after the building had commenced and he had fully expected Yucelgazi to obtain it". I never asked exactly at what point of the build he found out so it would be pure speculation to guess when the discovery was made and irrelevent as Ismet says, because nothing in the Contract between the two of them says one should monitor the other. At worst I think Sungur could accuse the builder of breaching the Contract by not doing it but since it was breached by failing to keep to the time frame anyway the Contract became nul and void. I think your point about drugs and prostitution is stretching it.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:19

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Message 21 of 79 in Discussion

msg. 18

Malsancak:

Hasan Sungur signed a contract with Yucelgazi to build him two villas in exchange for the land. The presence or absence of build permit or who was going to obtain it is of no relevance as far as third parties are concerned. I presume that he knew that Yucelgazi was to build and market other villas on this land. So far so good and there is nothinbg illegal or immoral about it.



The buyers made agreements with Yucelgazi and if there is any immorality here, it is the advocates who failed to warn their clients about the security problems and how to go about it. Probably it would not have made any difference. Example: a Russian customer asked my wife to act for him. She asked the developer to retain the last 10,000 pouınds for the title deeds. The developer told the buyer to get another advocate or no deal. He went to another advocate and agreement signed and sealed same day and money transferred 100% same day. In another example a buyer agreed on a purchase from Bellapais. He wrote to me and asked my wife to check the contract for a fee before signing it. We advised on security and the deal fell through. A year later we got a big Thank You e.mail from this client.

ismet



audge


Joined: 09/02/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:45

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Message 22 of 79 in Discussion

I read with interest about Cafer Yucelazi not completeing the properties at Incensu. At the time that he was signing contracts to build these houses he was turning his back on many unfinished properties that he had contracts to complete with his previous company CA:SA. Many without planning and building permission. He left all these property problems to be sorted out by his ex partner while he moved on to another business hoodwinking more unsuspecting purchasers. This man has no integrity in my opinion.



Having purchased from this man in 2004 we are now in 2011 and still continuing to try and complete our project . (his unfinished contract at our expense).



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:47

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Message 23 of 79 in Discussion

Honeybee, He did not have a Contract with you that is why. Your advocate should have been looking after your interest and asked for copies of everything from the builder. The Contract between the Builder and the Landowner did not include the security of the purchasers, as Ismet says, the Advocate should protect your interest but unfortunately here in the TRNC not all of them take their obligation seriously and have no duty of care and carry no professional indemnity. The Build Permit will be otained, don't forget he has two villas being built on the development too, it is just as important for him



I am so sorry for what is happening to you, as one of the K5, I can empathise with you. All I can tell you is that when I was talking with Mr Sungur he did seem sincere in his wish to find a solution. He does want suggestions for a solution from you and all the purchasers, if you want to inbox me on my facebook page Pauline Read with any suggestions for Mr Sungur please do so.



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:50

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Message 24 of 79 in Discussion

Misunderstood -' Nothing in the contract says one should monitor the other '



Surely, if you have a business interest, ie you are the landowner, you would want to monitor your investment? I know i would!



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:52

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Message 25 of 79 in Discussion

Misunderstood - read the post, 'Quote' I AM NOT an incesu victim. I think you should take things a bit slower and read the content of posts!



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 20:56

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Message 26 of 79 in Discussion

My sincere apologies Honeybee. I am very tired, I will admit. Put it down to court yesterday, court today, writing the article that is the subject of this thread, lack of sleep through stress from my own property problems and trying through Stop the Blackmail to help others and of course being an old lady.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 21:26

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Message 27 of 79 in Discussion

Note:

I DO NOT have a contract Aspire Trading Ltd

Hasan Sungur was party to the Addendum agreement by virtue of a 3 way conversation with Remax and my Daughter

Living here in rented accommodation I have bought furniture from the auctions in case I got my house as it included furniture and white goods.

My pool being built on the roadside is utter rubbish ALL the villas were sold with pool and the first house built (for me - but that is another story) does not have a pool at all even after 5 years. My original contract stated my pool would be 10 x 5. In the addendum agreement it was reduced to 8 x 4. and Hasan's houses moved back 3 mtrs. Maybe that was so it did not jut out into the road.

When my origial house was built there was no road.

The poor buyer in No 7 does not even have room for a sunbed around her pool - that will be interesting if it ever gets finished and she has a corner plot

Please Pauline go up to the houses and tell me which one you would like!!!



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 21:32

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Message 28 of 79 in Discussion

Hasan's houses were not moved back 3 mts

I now have an approx 12ft to climb to reach my house.



salli


Joined: 26/10/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 21:50

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Message 29 of 79 in Discussion

Nice to see that Pauline Reed has had her 15 minutes of fame even if it is a load of rubish she has spent so much time trying to interview Hasan Sunger, even though she claims not to be a journalist, she must be over the moon, pity she did not contact the purchasers and confirm some of the details,it must be nice to believe the rich landowner and get lots of BROWNIE points pity about the truth. Have a nice day Pauline.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 21:57

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Message 30 of 79 in Discussion

NCFP, on C44, has invited Incesu victims to tell their story but so far none have come forward, instead preferring to write here. I'm repeating the invitation again.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 21:59

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Message 31 of 79 in Discussion

You are absolutely right Salli.

On a previous post she asked Marian Stuart to introduce her to Hasan Sungur so that she could interview him (that was before I had the meeting with Hasan & Browneyes (Pembe) so the information relating to our private meeting had not been splashed all over this forum by Browneyes.

This is what decided me to then put the Incesu information on the forum as Browneyes had already done it.

HOWEVER: Recently, when I went to the court the 'settlement' discussion/agreement which had taken place with Browneyes and which was later written on this forum by browneyes was not mentioned but they reverted back to the £20k

Hasan talks about getting his 2 houses, we only want ONE!!!!!



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 22:03

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Message 32 of 79 in Discussion

Malsancak

Do you seriously think any of them are going to come forward when they have read the attacks made on this forum against me.

We have all waited for 5 years for this houses



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 22:07

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Message 33 of 79 in Discussion

The statements made in the article are already contradictary to the 'statements/quotes' made in records and correspondence I have posted on the forum. Which is the same information as all the other buyers have.

We have all been in touch throughout the buying process and even had a meeting in Leeds to discuss the situation some time ago. One buyer contacted Hasan Sungur direct and was informed By Remax that Hasan Sungur was very angry and that none of the buyers was to contact him. We had to apologise to Hasan for upsetting him and assuring him that it would not happen again - I DID THAT on behalf of the group.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 22:09

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Message 34 of 79 in Discussion

Hasan has already sent an email to Remax for forwarding to the buyers telling them to elect someone else to be spokesperson for the group, as he does not want anything more to do with me.

Fine, I had already informed everyone that was having no further contact with him as the last meeting we had with Browneyes was a farce - nothing agreed turned up in court - even Hasan did not turn up in court.



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 23:09

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Message 35 of 79 in Discussion

If there is a question of Court procedings arising is it really wise to discuss in public newpapers and forums, particularly with so many inhibited accusations flying around?



However since the damage is done could I query some contractual issues that puzzle me I am not involved, but interested as a permanent resident who has the intrests of the TRNC at heart and considers this type of situation damaging.



1. Am I correct in infering that Mr. Sungar owned the land and contracted with "Yulcegazi" to as act developer to desing, build and sell on properties on the land with part of the considration being the constrution of two houses for Mr. Sungar's own use?



2. Am I also correct that there was no contract between Mr. Sungar and any idividual purchasers?



3. Was there any form of contract beween the Developer (Yulcegazi) and the individual purchasers?



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 23:25

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Message 36 of 79 in Discussion

Hildysmith - this is why I am astonished why people on here are protecting the landowner - Like he is the victim?? I have bought property in NC, and believe you me it was not without it's problems..... but nothing like you and other victims have had to deal with. I find it hard to believe blame cannot be aportioned onto the landowner and they can walk away and start all over again!! It is bad enough having to pay builders taxes, but this is just outrangous. Surely if he had done his homework, he would have seen the builder was corrupt. Well i would rather be able to sleep at night!!



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 23:28

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Message 37 of 79 in Discussion

contd....



4. Did any of the Contracts contain provisions for liquidated damages and extensions of time. (provisions for owner and purchasers to be compensated by the Developer if he did not complete on time, and for the developer to claim extension of that time if in the event of specified causes of delays to the works)? Was anyone (Architect, Engineer, Project Manager) to suprvise the works and administer the Extension clauses?



5. If Mr. Sugar had no contract with the purchasers, how could he issue extensions of time on their behalf?



I am informed that TRNC law is based fairly closely on UK Law. The demand for this type of housing is very new (within a decade by my reckoning) and unprecedented in the TRNC. Because of the unique (and to my mind totally unfair ) situation of the TRNC none of the authorities, the legal profession, land owners or buiders have had the opportunity to develop the experience, exprtise and rescourses of more fortunate - favoured - lands



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 23:35

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Message 38 of 79 in Discussion

BizziLizzi - 'liquidated damages and extensions of time' do you actually believe that these mean anything in TRNC?? trust me if you have bought off plan those words are a joke!!!



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 23:48

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Message 39 of 79 in Discussion

In countries such as the UK there is a wealth of industry wide procedure and documentation for developers etc. to fall back on and long standing statutory laws to set the guidelines as well as centuries old Government and Local Government Depts (admittedly some would way too many and too complex) to administer them.



There are also arbitration procedures to, hopefully, avoid litigation.



Developers/owners have the experience and facilities to check that builders have the resoruces - financial and techncal - to carry out the contract. It takes specialist experience to plan a major contract, ensure that labour and material are available when required and that finance is there to pay for them!



Additionally I imagine a lot of the techniques , materials etc. came from Turkey. There may confusion with the different provisions of Turkish law.



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
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Message Posted:
26/10/2011 23:56

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Message 40 of 79 in Discussion



And to top it off it seems people have been relying on spoken agreements. You know what they say about parole (verbal )contracts - not worth the paper they are written on!



Surely a recipe for disaster.



Being far too charitable (or timid) to suggest that builders and developers bit off more than they could chew and purchasers were seeking to get a bargain by taking advantage of perceived unsophistication, I can only continue to be surprised at the niavity!



Honeybee


Joined: 09/09/2011
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 00:15

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Message 41 of 79 in Discussion

BizziLizzi - Purchasers might have been seeking a bargain ( and do not tell me you have never seeked this!!) but think how much money from these purchasers the TRNC local businesses have benefited!!!!!!!



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 00:24

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Message 42 of 79 in Discussion

You are not wrong 'there is more'

The Project Architect is Mehmet Sungur.

Marian Stokes sent me a translated copy of Hasan Sungur and Cafer Yucelgazi's contract.

1 extract states: '20 villas and once central pool' - each house was sold with its own pool

2 extract states: 'Permission will be given for construction of the 20 villas and one pool in the project on the above mentioned land which belongs to the owner' (HS). 'With all costs to belong to the contractor and the Architectual Project will be prepared by the owner' (HS)' 5 Villas witch corresponds to 25% of the villas will be received by the owner' (only 7 were sold therefore 2 villas is overpayment).

3 extract states: For quality standard of the construction one of the constructions done previously by the constructor will be taken as precedent and it cannot be below the standard of KTMMO'

The property shown to all of us by CAFER YUCELGAZI was Hasan Sungur's own house in Bellapais NOT built by Cafer Yucelgazi.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 00:27

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Message 43 of 79 in Discussion

The written contracts are also not worth the papers they are written on judging by the amount of unhappy purchasers and shared experiences . Most that bought, let us not forget, used TRNC Advocates so had only written contracts. You talk about naive buyers but what about the bakers, gardeners and shop keepers and others that suddenly became builders overnight? Were they not naive in their ability to meet their contractual and financial agreements? How much blame is contributed to this fact?



BizziLizzi your love of the TRNC shines through in all your posts but please lets not blame buyers who have often paid in full and adhered to their so called TRNC legally binding contracts and paid as specified in heir contracts.



Perhaps the TRNC should have advertised their unsophistication, inability to enforce the laws of the land, nepotism, discrimination and then there would be less naivety?



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 00:35

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Message 44 of 79 in Discussion

4 Extract states: Beylerbeyi Emlak Ltd (H Sungur's compnay) will give consulting service to the contractor upon demand and AT EVERY STAGE OF CONSTRUCTION and its costs will be paid by the owner (HS)

5 Extract States: The control architect in the project is the architect to be appointed by Beylerbey Emlak Ltd - Mehmet Sungur- he signed the docs Pauline Reed referred to.

6 Extract states: The standard of the 15 villas to be received by the contractor willl be at the standard of the villas that it had constructed perviously' Pauline Reed refers to Aspire Trading Ltd - I have no contract with Aspire Trading ltd only with 'Cafer Yucelgazi - Beneficiary & Contractor - I am not aware of any houses here built by 'Cafer Yucelgazi' under this name.

It then goes on: 'However standard of the 5 villas to be received by the owner' (HS) 'will be towards the demand of the control architect (M Sungur) and Beylerbeyi Emlak Ltd (H Sungur) without increasing m2.

Without increasing m2 - WOW I WISH!!!



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 01:08

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Message 45 of 79 in Discussion

Bradus: Yes I do love the TRNC , but I dont think it is perfect by any means - I have had my own difficulties and arguments - I could tell a real saga about a car but.................................



Maybe Iwould have had more sympathy with aggrieved purchasers if these developments did not damage the country and my lifestyle. People who lived here before they were built own property which has been spoiled and devalued by - blocked views, blocked light, blocked access, rights of way covered by swimming pools, intrusion of privacy etc. etc. etc. In my own case a small extension ( designed by the English owner) looks directly in to my bedroom and bathroom windows and an unecessarily bright light shines directly into my eyes in bed - and the noise..................



But back to developments - no they should have been controlled and werent. But I have tried to explain why in the particular circs of the TRNC this is understandable. And, yes, I have no doubt some of the landow



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 01:17

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Message 46 of 79 in Discussion

landowners builders, etc were greedy and did things they shouldnt. Happens everywhere just more temptation here.



But when these people who are now complaining looked at their prosective houses, did they have a single even momentarly passing thought for the adjacent houses, and that their dream house might have on someone dream house? Let alone what it ws doing to the environment - provided they had a good view did they care they wer eblocking everyone else's!n You didnt care about me why should I care about you. Dont destroy what is left to me by souring relations by ill judged and self defeating aggression.



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
27/10/2011 01:40

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Message 47 of 79 in Discussion

Honeybee message 41. Yes of course I seek bargains - but not I hope in circumstances where I thought I might be taking advantage of an unfortunate and unfair situation. Nor do I believe there is such a thing as a free lunch! I looked at some of these properties (I love my old house, but I myself am getting older and would like somemore convenient) but decided , apart from doubts about my ability to penetrate the legal maze, the way they were presented there had to be a snag! I am not that much more astute than other people - I explained on another thread my misjudgements inthe Uk - but it seems self evident that the situation was wrought with pitfalls .



Havent you ever looked at a dress in a magazine or on line and though "that ischeap I willl get it - and then thought " why so cheap? It doesnt say what it is made of, will it wash, isnt that fastening a bit dicey? " Same principle. Or even "Where was it made, how much did they pay the workers?"



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 01:46

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Message 48 of 79 in Discussion

Bizzilizzi

There are not adjacent houses. These villas are built on the mountainside and Hasan Sungur's remaining land has collapsed onto the houses.

No-one has lost a view they stand alone way above any other properties.



HildySmith


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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 01:49

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Message 49 of 79 in Discussion

The houses were not cheap we viewed 16 villas in 2 days and then more villas the following week. The prices of all were comparable with each other - we had a limit and we looked at properties within that limited. Some were rejected due to cliff top locations and dangerous areas when you have 2 small children aged 2 & 4. Others were too isolated. and there was other reasons but the prices were all within the limit and offered similar specifications.



BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 01:52

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Message 50 of 79 in Discussion

Bradus Anyone can read the history of the TRNC, Anyone with sense would realise it could not be the "Nanny State" that the UK has developed into, The things you accuse the TRNC of are rife in other countries - in a less tolerant place you would be in trouble for racism.



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 02:02

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Message 51 of 79 in Discussion

Now all your doing is displaying your own naivety. The TRNC has responsibility for what is built and where, not the buyer.Unfortunately I don't think their long term aims take what YOU want into consideration. Yes the landscape has been spoiled by unsightly buildings, especially those that have been abandoned and left to become derelict shells. But whose fault is this?



It would appear reading between the lines that you are blaming people, that did exactly what you did..........buy in a foreign country. Your "ill feeling" should be directed at the planners and developers of the TRNC. Foreign buyers are the product of TRNC advertisements and promotions and the temptation of cheap villas in the sun.



Your view being spoiled hardly justifies victims losing their life savings and their dreams of an home in the sun shattered.





The acronym NIMBY sprung to mind when I read your post.



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 02:40

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Message 52 of 79 in Discussion

More reason to rent

not buy



HildySmith


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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 09:37

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Message 53 of 79 in Discussion

I now believe this was a scam from start to finish!!!



HildySmith


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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 09:44

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Message 54 of 79 in Discussion

Hasan Sungur owns the land at Incesu.

My plot is on part of his land, although nowhere near the size of the plot stated on the plans - it is much reduced (another reason for objecting to pay £20 as it is too highly priced for that piece of land)

Now Hasan Sungurs land has now collapsed onto our houses/land - is he not responsible for his land and what happens on it/to it.

He did not secure HIS land therefore it collapsed.

is he not responsbile for REMOVING HIS LAND from the villas.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 09:47

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Message 55 of 79 in Discussion

Pictures and other articles from an Incesu victim on NCFP's temporary site (while the original is mended) at http://cheguffawa.wordpress.com



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 10:52

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Message 56 of 79 in Discussion

NCFP now back up on http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com. More article there about Incesu scam.



HildySmith


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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 10:59

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Message 57 of 79 in Discussion

The receipt shown in this does not proove that the contract was registered.

What it prooves is that were were once again DUPED into believing that the 'correct conveyancing' proceedures had been carried out.

The contract of sale WAS NOT be registered with the Land Registry. In 2008 when we applied to do this it was in response to the new law which Hasan Sungur was the architect of. This law states that the landowner MUST sign the contract of sale. As Hansan Sungur 'REFUSED' to sign the contract the Contract of Sale COULD NOT be registered.

THIS PROVES THAT WE WERE ASKED AND PAID MONEY TO DO SOMETHING WHICH COULD NOT BE DONE!!!!!



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 11:08

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Message 58 of 79 in Discussion

I read the article which Pauline Reed has printed link above.

I have not had so much fun since I read the SECRET SEVEN - lets face it Enid Blyton is a much better writer of fiction.



I have a photo of my house STANDING ALONE on the mountainside

- NO ROADS

- NO INFRASTRUCTRE NOTHING

Just my house during the early stages of it's construction.

What was it about my pool jutting out into the road - THERE IS NO ROAD....

The road did not appear until HASAN SUNGUR'S HOUSES APPEARED



Her description of Hasan Sungur Well he is a handsome, charming guy with an easy smile and charasmatic personality - LADIES, you know what I mean.

Well he has charmed Pauline (and that does not surprise me) he did the same to me at first.

He offered my Son a Job - nothing came of that

He has stated that he has a job for me - I told him I am retired and do not want a job.

There were a few other tactics which I have seen in the past - but he did execute them well.

He "could charm the birds from the



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 11:45

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Message 59 of 79 in Discussion

Malsancak:

Your heading states:

'Proof that Incesu Sales Contract was registered with the Land Registry'

IT IS NOT PROOF that the Incesu Sales Contract(s) were registered with the Land Registry

WHAT IT PROVES is that WE PAID Sener Law firm to do it when Mustafa Sener knew that it COULD NOT BE DONE as Hasan Sungur had 'REFUSED' to (that is the word Mustafa Sener Used) signed our Contract of Sales



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 16:00

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Message 60 of 79 in Discussion

Strange that my comment on the northcyprusfreepress article on this has disappeared. Couldn't be because I asked questions could it?



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 16:35

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Message 61 of 79 in Discussion

Hector,

mine too. Perhaps we are just too nosy?



Not really I think I posted when there was a technical problem with the site.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 16:57

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Message 62 of 79 in Discussion

Bradus correct! Had to go back to 3am yesterday because the website had an error caused by transferring posts from the temporary NCFP. Please re-comment everyone.

Hildy, I'll change the title.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 16:58

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Message 63 of 79 in Discussion

For what it's worth I've added another comment.



HildySmith


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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 17:25

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Message 64 of 79 in Discussion

What is Hasan Sungur going to do about the land belonging to him which has fallen on our villas.

His land which was unsecured has fallen onto the properties sold to 7 Brits. At the front he removed the land so he could put his houses in front of the sold villas contrary to the plan given to all the buyers.

Pauline Reed and Pembe are so keen to make the A VICTIM yet they encourage people with property problems to go to them NO WAY JOSE !!!!!!!!!

No doubt the has promised them that he will help their cause and do this that and tother for them - that is his technique.

I would advise any brits stay away from STOP THE BLACKMAIL IN NORTHERN CYPRUS as the loony's are running the asylum on this one!!!



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 18:10

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Message 65 of 79 in Discussion

should read land which was insecure.

My typing is not what it used to be since I retired.



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 18:15

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Message 66 of 79 in Discussion

Hector, good on you! Hope we don't have another NCFP "situation" for a long time, they're exhausting.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 21:48

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Message 67 of 79 in Discussion

Message 27



Pauline

As stated I DO NOT AND NEVER HAVE HAD A CONTRACT WITH ASPIRE TRADING LTD so what is the relevance of that in your article and why does it have any bearing on the procedures/contracting/conveyancing relating to the Incesu project.



The road you refer to in your article.

I have a picture of my house at the beginning of construction - THERE IS NOT ROAD, THERE IS NO INFRASTRUCTURE - JUST MY HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLOT.

BEFORE;

Hasan Sungur messed with the plans and stripped away all of the land to put his houses in a prominant position in front of mine.

They Look closer???????? THEY ARE B****Y CLOSER, TO CLOSE. Had I left the pool where Hasan Sungur put it I would be sunbathing on a road overlooked by his houses and any passers by. Some of the houses are still in this condition.



AND THERE'S MORE!!!!!!!!!



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 21:53

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Message 68 of 79 in Discussion

I hasten to add that when I say JUST MY HOUSE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PLOT - I mean just my house in the middle of the whole site!!!!!!!

Get your facts right Pauline



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
27/10/2011 22:52

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Message 69 of 79 in Discussion

Pauline

Next time you interview Hasan PLEASE ask him why:

Every house has a car port but none of the houses can use it. Because he removed all of the land for his houses up to 20ft so all the car ports are attached to a house which is suspended in mid air.

We wanted to use the drive as a garden - we got neither

The others wanted to use their car ports to store their cars - SILLY THEM!!!!!!!!!!!



TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
28/10/2011 00:01

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Message 70 of 79 in Discussion

Hildy,



We are all SILLY "They wanted to use their car ports" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!



So many hundreds of SILLY buyers wanted to use their homes!



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
28/10/2011 09:38

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Message 71 of 79 in Discussion

AND what is the President of the Estate Agents Union, Chairman of the Employers Union doing about it???



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
28/10/2011 16:04

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Message 72 of 79 in Discussion

It just goes on and on.

Hasan Sungur wants £20k for land which is not worth that amount of money at today's prices.

He wants shot of it before the Greeks come and he has to pay compensation as it is exchanged land so we will have to pay the compensation

He has lost nothing.

- Yes his family lost property in the south/north conflict -

IS THAT MY FAULT

Am I responsible

Is it me who has to make it up to him

It would appear by what has been said on this forum:

The GC's screwed theTC's so the TC's need to screw the Brits to get back their rights

THAT CANNOT BE RIGHT !!!!

NOR should it be allowed to continue.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
Posts: 1708

Message Posted:
29/10/2011 11:08

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Message 73 of 79 in Discussion

As the Brits are a minority here it only takes a small amount cases to make it the majority for the Brits.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
29/10/2011 16:14

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Message 74 of 79 in Discussion



STOP THE BLACKMAIL IN NORTH CYPRUS - FACEBOOK WALL- FRIENDS INCLUDE:

Hasan Sungur The Landowner of the INCESU PROJECT

Cafer Yucelgazi'S ADVOCATE - He is the Builder who walked off site and is responsible for the contracts

Mustafa Sener - Sener Law Firm my ex advocate who was Advocate for nearly all the Incesu buyers - WHO STRANGELY HAVE THE SAME CONTACT FROM DIFFERENT ADVOCATES - NOW HOW COULD THAT BE?????????



These people got us into this situation in the first place



Two of the people who set this up are Misunderstood - Pauline Reed and Browneyes - Pembe.

and they have been attacking me and the INCESU BUYERS and preaching that poor Hasan Sungur is the VICTIM and these nasty buyers have been giving him a hard time.....

awwwwwwww woe is me!!!!!!

You couldn't write a funnier fiction if you tried.



HildySmith


Joined: 02/07/2009
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Message Posted:
29/10/2011 17:57

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Message 75 of 79 in Discussion

Interesting speech - WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH OUR EMPTY HOUSES which we cannot have:



Mr Sungur said a House Provision Fund Administration (Kefi) should be established to administer the completion and sale of unfinished homes.



Kefi, which will be composed of representatives from the government, the sector and the banks, will take over the unfinished homes on application by the contractor. Projects will be promoted through the estate agents. Then Kefi will provide sufficient money to the contractor in three phases for the completion of the construction. After the constructions are completed, Kefi will sell the homes, not the contractor. With the sale proceeds Kefi will first pay off the contractors bank debt and then hand over what is left of the money



misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
29/10/2011 18:35

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Message 76 of 79 in Discussion

Stop the Blackmail in North Cyprus facebook Group was not set up by Pauline Read (note the spelling) nor Pembe browneyes. One person's idea of attacking is another persons idea of debating. Seems unless you agree, you are attacking. So be it. There are two sides to every story, as a blogger I gave the other side, not my words, but hey lets just shoot the messenger, who wants to hear two sides of a story???



Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
29/10/2011 18:38

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Message 77 of 79 in Discussion

Hildy. Your not on your own, have a look at http://www.turkishliving.com and read Dream Over ripped off.



passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
29/10/2011 18:40

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Message 78 of 79 in Discussion

shut it asap disgraceful behaviour



philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
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Message Posted:
03/11/2011 02:49

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Message 79 of 79 in Discussion

All very sad

you should stick together though



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