Ex-pats,unification or Turkish state

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
22/11/2011 21:03

As the heading suggests

what do ex-pats hope for ?

or believe will happen ?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
22/11/2011 21:05

option 2 .

steve.sewell


Joined: 07/11/2011
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
22/11/2011 21:17

option 1



In the end.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
22/11/2011 21:22

Option 1. However I could see more problems unravel, regarding property ownership for foreign purchasers, if there was such a settlement.

Giles


Joined: 16/08/2011
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
22/11/2011 21:26

Re-unification, if that is what is best for the Cypriots!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/11/2011 23:49

Unifcation would be a massive boon for EU citizen ex pats. The whole property boom in North Cyprus started because of the prospect of unification via the Annan Plan. Property values would increase accross the board as a result of unification. There would be no requirment for residency, work permits and no restrictions on bringing goods in from the rest of the EU, be they cars, Ikea furniture or M&S ready meals. Movement of pets to and from the north would become easier and cheaper. Ex pat residents would gain rights to stand and vote in local and municipal elections. There would be benefits in healthcare costs and recipricol tax arangments. The chance of losss to ex pats owners of disputed title property would be minimal and any such liablilty will almost certainly be less than the increase in value as a result of unification in the majority of cases.

MoonageDaydre


Joined: 09/07/2011
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 00:25

Re-unification by means of a bi-zonal bi-communal federation will be the best outcome for the Turkish Cypriots, and that has to be the main issue.

It would also suit expats best, for all the reasons erolz mentions and more.....

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 02:26

erolz message 6,



exactly!!!



...the one small caveat, is you do not explain the terms of any unification agreement

but as a sheer guess I would assume it would look very similar to the 2004 proposals

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 04:12

A united Cyprus.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 08:10

Re-unification yes...

Hopefully - mass-movements of peoples no.

Attempts at large-scale re-introduction of communities is not a good recipe for future harmony. First must come trust and there is a whole new generation of Cypriots who are not really au fait with how things were and could be again... good and bad. Some have been fed a diet of fairly blatant propaganda for years - that needs to addressed. They certainly can't want a repeat of past errors.

Of course a more measured, organic, slow re-alignment of peoples would eventually occur as people move, if only in search of work, and other changes have their effects.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 10:29

Why do the Ex-pats "assume" that re-unification (of Cypriots) in any form, or even a Turkish State,would be automatically beneficial to them?

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 10:48

Whatever the Turkish Cypriots want for themselves. I remain a guest in their country and came here aware of all the problems. I hope to remain here regardless of whatever the outcome is.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 10:56

msge 11



In my reading of the situation, in an ideal world, it seems that TC's would like their own state, free from the interference of Turkey and the ROC, although they would want to trade freely with these two other countries.



Alas, it seems that this is a option that will always be denied to the TC's. It does not suit the other players.



Of course, going it on their own may not be practical, not unless they still received funding from Turkey or the EU.



Looks like the best they can get is a bi zonal bi communal federation.

steve.sewell


Joined: 07/11/2011
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 11:11

Under the eu tc's would be equal, its the best deal they are going to get, its turkey they need to shake off.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 11:30

Who's going to guarantee their situation once they 'shake-off' Turkey then? You? Certainly the last time they needed help only Turkey came to their aid..... Everyone else. to their eternal shame, sat on their hands and declared themselves unable to intervene... including the UK.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 11:44

msg 12



I fully agree with your comment and hold the same opinion.



"Whatever the Turkish Cypriots want for themselves. I remain a guest in their country and came here aware of all the problems. I hope to remain here regardless of whatever the outcome is"





rgds



Mike

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 12:02

I personally just think they should remove crossing points and customs. That way both sides would have the chance to mix if they so wished. It would go some way to seeing if a solution would be viable.

People live, work and make friends on a daily basis as it is now, so why do we need to keep up the crossing stupidity.? Relax the rules and let the Cypriots decide for themselves.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 14:42

Leopards never change their spots....be careful what you wish for......

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 15:04

Msg 15:

Why would we need a guarantee, at the end of the day, being part of the E.U (will be if Agreement is reached) anyone and everyone will be free to come and go as they wish.

As for the borders, yes they should be removed, on one hand we are trying to agree on some kind of unification but on the other, we are imposing a max 90 visa on the Gc, even if the borders have to remain for the time being, I think that the Tc Goverment should lift the 90 visa for the Gc, for them to travel freely, in order to make them feel at home.

Most Gc who refuse to cross to the Tc side refuse on this bases, I am sure that if the Tc Goverment took the action, it will help improve relations much better than now.



We as Tc show are ID cards and pass freely into the Gc but yet the very people who we share this Island with have to get a entry visa to enter.



Mind you, we are the only country in the world that imposes an entry visa for its own people.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 15:11

Erkin



Spot on !!

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 15:16

Msg 10



why fear a mass movement of people in small country like Cyprus, if any deal is reached, I am sure that most Tc and Gc will be happy in their current locations, With the exception of Varosa and maybe Karpaz but apart from that, I can not see lots of people rushing to go back to their homes once again.

Under the 2004 Annan plan of Housing issue would have given everyone the option of moving back to their homes or being compensated for it,

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 15:18

Article 1

Property occupied by current users with sufficient financial means

1. A current user of a property designated for reinstatement, with sufficient financial means, may apply to the Property Board for an extension to enable him/her to continue to use the property for his/her own purposes for up to three years after the Claims Bureau’s decision.

2. An application for an extension shall be granted by the Property Board unless and up to the time when it is found that the current user is not using the property for his/her own purposes, or that the current user has immediate access to alternative accommodation.

3. The Property Board may extend the time limit under this Article in cases of urgent humanitarian need, as determined by the Property Board.

4. The current user shall pay market rent to the Property Board for the period of continued use of the affected property from the date of the Property Board’s decision on eligibility for reinstatement.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 15:22

1. A current user of a property designated for reinstatement, without sufficient financial means, who is a Cypriot citizen and is using the property for his/her own purposes, shall not be required to vacate the property until alternative accommodation is made available for them or until they are able, including through the provision of preferential loans or other assistance, to buy or lease on the market a property which meets the standard of alternative accommodation.

2. Such current users may apply to the Property Board for:

a. Assistance to purchase or lease alternative accommodation, in the form of preferential loans under these provisions; or

b. In cases of urgent humanitarian need and where not eligible for preferential loans, the allocation of low-cost or cost-free alternative accommodation from the holdings of the Property Board. The

Property Board shall grant such applications to persons meeting its criteria, provided that alternative accommodation is available.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 15:27

As i said before, all this can easly be resolved, but like all other referundums around, We never get a copy of the agreement and rely on media and goverment spokemans to give us the info.



If both the Tc and Gc goverments published the Agreement (183 pages) and everyone read it, Then all this could have been resolved in 2004.

Most of the talk are still based under the Annan Plan of 2004, it is all about wording the documents to please each side

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 15:37

msg 24.."wording the document to please each side"



I think that's what" Neville Chamberlain"said and thought..........

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 18:42

I go with mess6, and I believe most Cypriots want this, but I'm still scared what the small percentage of 'EOKA like' people will do.



Also what about the Turkish settlers? All the people who are my neighbours and friends have lived here for 30 odd years, some are born here and know no other life. Dipkarpaz has almost no TC's.

Send them back??? Where to???

This has to be addressed before any unification.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 18:54

Erkin;



speachless..............................thank you.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 20:36

yorg... Do you mean the "Annan plan" leaves you speechless ? do try to keep up ...

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
23/11/2011 21:57

Msg 26:



Those who are born here or who have lived here since the 70s will be allowed to remain, i think the last figure on this topic was something around 60,000 Mainlander.



those born here

married to Tc

or have been here for more than 30 years will remain, unless they give up their rights and take the cash that will be offered to them, under the annan plan that amount was between 10.000 & 20,000 depending on the size of the family

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 01:33

Surpised not more ex-pats

have an opinion

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 07:56

Has any one really though as to way Turkey, is not helping much in the talks.



If we Tc and Gc reach an agreement, as a E.U state, Citizens of Turkey will be required to get a visa to enter Cyprus as required under the E.U visa rules.



Which means it will effect the north Tourism not to mention that the 40,000 students that we get from Turkey in the Universities in Cyprus.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 08:14

Erkin

"Why would we need a guarantee" History should teach us lessons.... some accounts of the period 1963 - 1974 seem to support the notion that the last time problems occurred it was only the actions of Turkey acting as a 'guarantor' that prevented the Cyprus resident TCs from being wiped off the face of the earth. If you don't believe this was the intentions of some GCs perhaps you could share your insight with us.

It wasn't that long ago... do you think it's all done and dusted? Don't you think the last 37 years of peace has more than a little to do with the presence of Turkish troops?

Of course there are people of good faith on both sides.... there always were, but that didn't stop those with bad intentions acting up, did it? Do you think ALL those with anti-Turkish Cypriot sentiments have gone?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 08:16

If they have, it will be the only place on this earth where that's the case. somehow I don't think so.

I admire your aims but feel you are hopelessly romantic to the point of naivete. Don't get me wrong we should all hope you are right, but hopes are often-times dashed on the rocks of reality.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 08:35

I agree with Gavin. We live in a Turkish Cypriot Enclave protected by Troops both Turkish and UN...It would be too easy to suppose that the "Peace" we enjoy is due to a softening of attitudes over the last 37 years.. True Peace would be lovely,but it "Will" come at a price...........

martinev


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 320

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 08:42

Whatever the Turkish Cypriots want is fine with me.



Martinev

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 09:06

U speak as we are the all country in the world with this kind of problems, of course their will be % od people on both sides, who will continue with hatred, but lets get one thing very clear here, why are you blaming the Gc for the 60s and early 70s problems, yes some may have taken part in the efforts of Greece to anex the island, but we can not blame the whole of the Gc people, from what i can guess most Ex pats on this island are really not sure what happened in the 60s and 70s.



We Tc are not saying that we are ungrateful to Turkey for what they did in 1974 and most Tc support their action along with me, but at the end of the day 37 years has passed and instead of showing that we are peacfull now,the Turkish Goverment is still keeping 40,000 troops here, now come on why on gods earth, de we need that many on the island, Under the annan plan of 2004, 6000 turklish troops were to remain on the island, reducing down to 650 over a 10 year period.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 09:25

The other point that i wish to Raise is that u state under UN protected, The UN are unable to do anything what so ever, if the Gc army or the Turkish Army were to cross over the buffer zone, The UN can only look on helplessly.



I state again, that in order for peace to be gained on this Island both Greece and Turkey need to show willingness and start to reduce their army from the island.



We are not North-South Korea.

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 09:52

Both have their points but I think that if it cant stay as it is it might be better off as another Turkish state

John

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 10:08

msg 38.... The fact that the Postal Address is Mersin 10 "Turkey" could be a hint as to what might happen...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 10:12

Martinev

What they want and how they achieve that are two entirely different things... I hope they get what they want, but fear if too simplistic in their trust in the machinery they negotiate in place of the current stalemate, they might end-up with exactly what they don't want and could have avoided. Trusting in the good nature of people has often proven a false dawn. I'm not a doom and gloom merchant, far from it, I can see a lot of increasing effort having good effects and hope it continues.

I would love to see the de-facto border gone as a start to a people's re-unification without the bloody politicians who will only spoil the party... as they do.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 11:37

It doesn't matter what x pats think. We have no say in what happens on the island nor should we. We can comment on what we think, knowing it carries no weight.



My view, is that once unified, war will not break out between the two sides, although there are likely to be occasional clashes. There will be many who will be unhappy that there is a solution.

Good job there is unlikely to be a war, because Europe has a poor record in defending Muslims on its doorstep. Bosnia is a reminder.

Turkey may also think twice about intervening. Look at the hassle it has had since 74.

It would be prudent for TC's to keep some troops on the island, but will the GC's ever agree to this?



The question is "Do the GC's see themselves as the rightful heirs to the throne?" If not, the two sides will live in relative harmony, if they do, then, slowly, through their greater numbers and access to wealth, the GC's will turn the screw. You may not have to fight a war to win

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 11:38

a country, you may just need to be mentally resourceful and determined. The TC’s had better get a watertight legal agreement, backed up by international law and to get very clear on who is going to enforce it.



The GC’s were quite happy to manipulate there way in to Europe, so they have a recent example of speaking with a forked tongue.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 12:06

Msg 41:



Under any treaty or agreement both Turkey and Greece will keep troops on the ground, Under the last agreement, Turkey was 6000 reducing to 650 over the 10 year period, same as the agreed 1960 agreement and the same applies to Greece.



The Gc can not disagree to this factor, other wise the whole agreement becomes pointless.



Yes we do need a water tight agreement, if the whole thing blows up again, I don't think Turkey will sit back instead they will just anex and the north and be done with the whole situation.



The best way for a qucik solution is to speed up Turkeys membership into the E.U with freedom of movement and trade all round, it will be a different story.

steve.sewell


Joined: 07/11/2011
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 12:21

Its people like groucho who will not lay it to rest and move on, for whatever reason selfishness or maybe its been a certain way for so long he feels its real and the way it should be. Its good to see on this thread that most people understand its all about whats best for the cypriots no one else.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 12:24

msge 43



Hi Erkin



You are right about the troop numbers proposed under the Annan plan, but this was rejected by the GC's. What we don't know is, how much weight GC's gave to this part of the plan? GC's on this forum tend to get heated when the reattainment of any Turkish troops is mentioned. I guess they might agree to a slow phasing out of troops, as trust develops.



Turkeys membership of the EU is not just about Cyprus. As you have stated on another thread it is about the size of its voting block that is the issue. I also think that France, Austria and Germany just would not allow Turkey to join. Germany does not want any more Turks and France has its own problems.



There is no question that there are lots of loving Cypriots who want peace. What we do not know though is "Do the GC's see themselves as the rightful heirs to the throne?" What one says before the marriage may be different to how one acts after the marriage.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 12:43

To see how the GC's might act we have to look at what has happened to date.



GC's have given TC's ROC passports, medical care and they are allowed to work in the South. These could be seen as real acts of kindness, but they could also be viewed as a clever way of drawing the TC's in. Accepting a ROC passport could mean you are own step closer to accepting our status. Why wouldn't the TC's accept, that want their freedom and they want to secure their health and well being. (both of which they are entitled to)



The one that really worries me, is the GC's not allowing the TC's to get involved in sporting events. Yes I understand that the GC's worry that it could lead to the recognition of the TC state, but most countries agree to keep politics out of sport.





In any case, I defer to your judgement. You live with the GC's, and will know how they think and feel far more than I can ever, and I repeat it does not matter what an ex pat thinks. Cyrpiots will make their own decisi

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 12:51

msg 45:

Yes there are a lot of Gc I would say as much as 70% want peace, the ones that see themselves as the rightful heirs to the throne is not Gc but Greeks from mainland mostly.



Like Tc the Gc imported as much trouble for themselves as we did with mainlanders. The upper hand that they have at present as both are E.U members and can play number crunching games in respect to voting power, There is already a dispute between goverment departments since 2004 as to the number of mainlanders that Gc counted before becoming member of the E.U

Some papers are quoting as much as 22% which if thats the case making the GC population under 1mil.



yes a bit like the fiddler on the roof before and after marriage from being an angel to turning to devil worship

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 12:57

msge 47



Thanks Erkin



I didn't realise that there were that many Greeks on the south side.



If 70% of GC's want peace then reunification is a done deal. It is going to happen.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 12:59

The GC's love their TC brothers?

Until we see some positive everyday evidence of this you people sitting in the buffer zone are, regretfully, freezing your assets for no purpose.

steve.sewell


Joined: 07/11/2011
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 13:13

I have seen tcs and gcs living in harmony in paphos. Cypriots in the south just want turkey to leave there island, they don't have beef with there cypriot brothers. But of course certain parties are making it as hard as possible fro people to see that, but the world will always see it for what it is, this is why it will put itself right in the end. What happened to the turkish state supporters who said the euro would crash, you seem to have gone a bit quiet, could it be possible your wrong on all counts.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 13:25

msge 50



Hi steve



Human relationships tend to work if both parties respectfully see themselves as equal (even better if there is genuine warmth and affection), or if both parties accept that one has higher status than the other.



I had never thought of that. Perhaps there is a relationship between Turkish state supporters and the Euro crashing.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 13:39

Cypriots in the south just want turkey to leave there island.

Then why not lift the embargos, allow direct flights, and do everything possible to help the north, this would get rid of Turkey. All that is happening now is a GC attempt to split the TC's away from Turkey and obtain full control of the island for themselves. Some few may fall for it, but not the majority.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 13:59

pls we are not in the 1900s anymore

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 14:09

msg53,



Pardon?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 16:03

one of the big problems for the "solutionists"

(those who are optimisic of the prospects but vague of its conditions)

is the eu has little or nothing to offer turkey in exchange for leaving



my thesis is the eu will not offer turkey membership quite irrespective

of the cyprus issue



and how would things look domestically in turkey if they "abandoned"

cyprus?



not too good!



(......as always, this is neither what I want nor don't want etc etc etc)

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
24/11/2011 17:31

msg 52,



wake up, the embargoes are not just imposed by the Gc, but by the UN itself.



Not to mention the biggest embargo on TRNC comes from Turkey itself since the signing of the customs union of 1997.



Ok what is the prospect of Gc starting a war or creating Eoka C again against the Tc if the Turkish army pulled out?



1-2-3-10-20% what?



Do u honestly belive that the Gc will risk being kicked out of the E.U or being interntionally condemed.

The army has served its purpose there is a big difference between coming here on a peace mission 38 years ago and taking over the country.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 01:11

Interesting most of the posts

want a unified Island

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 12:31

phil,



sorry to be a bore but when you say "unified"

I assume you mean a reunification agreement

...in the first instance



what would you think its terms and conditions

would be, to gain the approval of both sides?

steve.sewell


Joined: 07/11/2011
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 12:38

It would be best for most ex pats and myself if things stay how they are, but it cant. I did not think the chances of things being resolved in the near future was likely six months ago, so now its all up i the air.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 16:05

msg,58, I get the impression

the biggest problem is land

Especially from the G/Cs

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
25/11/2011 17:26

messages 58 and 60:



rather than comment, could I outline an idea:



is it just possible that all this relatively loose talk of unification,

without knowing any details, let alone whether it can ever happen

isn't really about partition at all



rather that many of us would prefer to see all cyprus ruled by gc's

just as it more or less was for a significant period in the past:

...and they would make a better job of it than the trnc authorities ?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 00:25

'nuff said?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 00:46

msge 61



Andre





Everyone has there own reasons, but I think Erolzs msge in 6 may have struck a chord with many. The cost of living under the Euro would be a concern, but if the cost of property increases at the same time, people may see some parity with the UK. It might also make it easier for some to jump ship.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 07:29

"access to wealth"

Access to debt surely? The GC position of financial stability and strength underpinned by mother Greece has been dealt a severe blow by the mainland's profligate banking sector and their handling of the economy, so I'm not convinced that (economic domination) would be a method they could readily adopt for a 'winning' strategy any longer.... which has two possible effects.

1. They give up on the idea that they can have it all; or

2. They don't.

Trusting in option 1 without putting checks and balances in place is a foolish notion, but that's never stopped politicians being fools or stopped them from fooling their respective communities.

Option 2 is still a spectre and one that nobody dare admit.... after all they all love each other these days and nothing bad happened before did it..... and if it did, well it was all only somebody else's fault.

cypbb


Joined: 23/09/2011
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 10:28

The dream for us all would be Turkey take this side on as a seperate state and make it a tax haven...well we can all dream cant we???

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 10:44

cypbb...I come from a Tax Haven, and I can assure you that whilst "great for the Rich" , it is just the opposite for the normal working Man..Your "Dream" would be closer to a nightmare unless you are Loaded... Many average income (Guernsey) families struggle to cope on the tiny Island run by Millionaires.......... All that Glisters .:(

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 11:41

msge 64



Groucho



I am referring to the concentrated wealth that would be in the hands of a small minority. If they are determined to see the GC's dominate, then they can form a powerful lobby that would continually pressurise a newly formed government to subtly meet their demands. Lobbying is a problem in the UK and Washington, imagine what it would be like in Cyprus.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 16:21

Would it not be a rotating government?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 16:56

Rotating,..... What like going round and round in circles

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 17:35

I may be being too cynical, but unless TC politicians have the highest integrity, and a strong desire for the TC's to maintain equal status (and to hold this above their own self interest) then they could be under pressure to concede ground.



My assertion on msge 67 also only holds water if:



Firstly, there are indeed a small group of wealthy GC's (who have insulated themselves against the financial crash). Without knowing for sure, I expect it is true. Parettos law says that 80% of the wealth is owned by 20% of the people. In English speaking countries the majority of the wealth is owned by an even smaller no.



Secondly, that there are more wealthy GC's than TC's. I am assuming there are, through the greater opportunities that have been presented.



Thirdly, that the wealthy minority would desire the GC's to eventually dominate and that they would pressure the government. I can’t answer this, although I am reminded of the work of Lewis Thomas:

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 17:36

‘Two seemingly identical patches of anemones on a rock may appear to live in harmony. In reality, however, the colonies edge against each other, aggressively trying to dislodge the rival community from the rock they both call home. Like white blood cells and the denizens of the primitive tribe, the members of each anemone clump know who is one of “us” and who is one of “them”



If they genuinely see TC’s as equal and respectfully want to share power (with no conditions) then all will be fine. Most humans have to work hard to ensure that their highest nature and ideals are always present.



Fourthly, that the majority of the population turn a blind eye to some biased governmental decisions. The majority will be GC’s.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 17:37

Perhaps there are too many conditions that need to be met for msge 67 to be a problem, and to be honest, I have no idea what pressure they would bring. It all depends on the nature of the political agreement.



And anyway, peace can easily be attained, it only needs both parties to agree that one has more status than the other. Its only a problem when the subordinated find they are getting a raw deal and can then gain access to enough power to do something about it. Turkey, once finally snubbed, may not offer their power again.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 18:02

message 72:



para 2 line 1: of course!



..and since power sharing failed (1963) and compromise was rejected (2004)

then either things stay as they are or "cyprus" gets its northern province back



seems all too obvious to me

Texas


Joined: 22/09/2009
Posts: 634

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 19:20

You seem to think that there are only two options.



I believe, even though some will consider it a total joke, there may be a third option.



Grow opium in every conceivable plot of land. It will bring in billions of Dollars. Please don't comment on we will not be able to sell it as there are embargoes. It's an illegal substance, so it will be sold illegally.



Then allow basically everything that is illegal in other countries. Let's not get too specific, but allow my argument to continue.



We will have so much money coming in we will then be in a strong position to negotiate with the world powers who wish us to behave legally. They will offer us plenty.



We are somewhat already there. Think of all the casinos, nightclubs and the fact that we are the nearest country to Europe that allows (for a fee) you to choose the sex of your unborn baby. Don't forget the corruption, money laundering, etc, etc.



We could also allow legalised Euthanasea. The Swiss have it!

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 19:54

Re: Msg 74,

Excellent, Texas!

I will vote for you as the Governor- General of the Opium Province.





P.S.Also offer you advice to the US Congress, as they seem to be stuck on what to do with Afghanistan.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
26/11/2011 20:25

Re: Msg 75,

Error: should be "your advice".

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 00:51

Another error



Msge 72



2nd paragraph should read



Its only a problem when the subordinated find they are getting a raw deal, and can then CANT gain access to enough power to do something about it.



msge 74



You could be on to something there Texas.

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 01:22

Re: Msg 74,

Douglas, you could be the Lieutenant Governor of the Opium Province.



I will vote for you too.







P.S. It is 'cannot', by the way.

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 02:00

I dont think there will be any form of re unification.

Pappy


Joined: 26/11/2011
Posts: 1

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 06:34

My first posting on this forum. My mother is English, I was born in London, my estranged father (died 1998) was Greek-Cypriot. I first visited Cyprus in 1977 and crossed over from the RoC to visit the capital of the then TFSC. While there I shook hands with some Turkish soldiers and was most interested to visit sights in the capital. In 1998, after my father's funeral, I visited the village in the UN zone near one of the two British occupation areas (Dhekelia) where Greek and Turkish Cypriots live together, then drove to the TRNC border and chatted to the guard manning this post.



I visited the TRNC in the 1990s on a day trip from Turkey. I visited again in 2008 with an Irish friend, and was pleased to see a new crossing in Ledra Street had now opened with the minimum of formalities to cross.



I have always been a friend of North Cyprus and feel it should be universally recognized. I am in favor of reunification within the EU, with federal Turkish-Cypriot and Greek-Cypriot states.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 14:50

msge 78





'you could be the Lieutenant Governor of the Opium Province."



Yeah, and you could be my bitch............................................hold it, on second thought

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 15:32

message 80:



I greatly respect what you say because of your personal history, but...



a bloke on euronews, at the tail-end of a report "tension in cyprus", just

commented that while all parties want a federal system, what each side

actually understands by a federal system is irreconcilable:

bad news for lots on this forum...and not very encouraging for cypriots



the reason why "vague yearnings" for unification are so much wasted

cyberspace is mostly because of the involvement of the "regional power"

whose multifarious investment in their protectorate grows all the time



and like quantum physics though as soon as you zero in on the tangible

aspects of any agreement solidity and order seem to fly out the window



finally, on the burning issue of "can the greek cypriots be trusted?"

I can only refer all readers still awake to that scene in

"stardust memories" where woody allen asks the space alien about

the meaning of life but is told it is "the wrong question"

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 17:02

Re: Msg 81,



Not very nice of you, Douglas. :(

(Unless you allude somehow to Sarah's book "Bitch Slap Politics". )

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 17:19

msge 83



Okay Clarissa2. How about comrades. That sounds better

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 17:26

Re: Msg 84,

"How about comrades..."



Douglas, please don't swear!

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 20:56

When I stayed in Paphos ,I got the impression that most would be happy living with tcs, their problem was with the mainland turks and the ex-pats living there on their land .

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
27/11/2011 21:54

message 86:



are the germans pleased that poles and russians live in posen, bresslau, konigsberg, danzig?

yet we can see this is a daft question really, since for good or ill it cannot now be changed

...and there are countless examples of displacement from ancient times until today



of course the gc's are mostly "happy" with the tc's since they still hope to recover north cyprus

somehow or other and the tc's by themselves would be no barrier to that:

and so could be treated with magnanimity

...the problem is that turks and foreigners will probably stop the dream ever becoming reality



for their part the greek cypriots certainly feel things have moved to a more civilised plane since

the ugly days of eoka "B" and the samson coup, and who am I to claim they are deluded?



finally, and I probably deserve to be shot for daring to state this, but elsewhere on the planet,

sharp distinctions between populations of similar language and religeous identity, blur over time

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 10:15

Msg to Erkin:



You are quoting from the Annan Plan in your msgs above. Remember, it was ACCEPTED by the Turkish Cypriot side (65% YES).

Also, please remember it was REJECTED by the Greek Cypriot side (75%), and even bigger majority!



In you msgs, I get the impression you are blaming the TCs, Turkey, etc for the current situation and that a plan like Annan would be the perfect solution.. However, as far as I can see, Turkey and the TCs supported Annan and they voted YES by majority.



As far as the facts and figures show, the reason why there is no settlement today based on ANNAN is not because Turkey did not support it or the TCs voted NO. It is in fact the opposite, the majority of more people in the SOUTH, the GCs rejected it. Three quarters of them! That would be a landslide result!



Do you blame them? They have an internationally recognised country, EU membership, etc, etc. Why would they vote YES to share today, when they hope to take it all tomorrow?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
28/11/2011 15:30

message 88:



...fair comments and I'd like to point out to those others still hankering for an annan-type compromise

(though they are usually too coy to refer to it), that the landscape has shifted considerably since 2004



crudely, from leaks and off-the-cuff statements emanating from ubp politicians and cristophias there is

no longer any territory on offer to exchange for "peace", and neither is the gc side interested in much

less than restoration of all the property they gambled away thirty-seven years ago



if general statements from wellwishers about a federal karpaz, an eu famagusta and bicommunalism

were really what will determine the end-game for these latest and lastest talks, I'd be greatly shocked



north cyprus is not going to be plastic-wrapped and efficient like carrefour, and we'll have to accept it

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
29/11/2011 12:37

andre514.. I'm thinking you may be right: "not going to be plastic-wrapped and efficient like carrefour, and we'll have to accept it ".



It dawned on me on my last trip in to Ercan, when the arrivals hall was full of people that had just got off DIRECT-NONSTOP flights from different Turkish airports... They were all mainland Turks, and were happy. They've got their solution, they're happy. Direct flights from where they wan them, any choice of Turkish airport.



Us 150 people on the in-direct flight from Stansted were out numbered.. We were the only ones that would want some sort of recognition or atleast "direct/non-stop" flights from EU or UK... But for the majority, they have this already.

Jonholmes


Joined: 08/11/2011
Posts: 184

Message Posted:
29/11/2011 17:25

When will the census figures be published or will they not be available to the public?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
29/11/2011 18:15

mus,



dunno about happiness as a quantifiable factor

even though its persuit is sanctioned by one ancient philosopher,

let alone the usa constitution (sic)



more to the point, the international court had for the first time,

in early 2010, given (lukewarm) backing to turkish-born people

..criticizing the logic of turfing out those currently resident simply

in order to restitute properties to previous occupants or owners,

thereby creating a new army of the homeless and dispossessed



what do you think about this statement that crops up continually

on here: "one thing is for sure, things cannot stay as they are"?



could mus or somebody else, please explain exactly why not?



I do appreciate I will be labelled a supporter of the status quo,

just for asking the question

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
01/12/2011 12:16

so to sum up,

my prediction about either possibility in the header is:

most unlikely

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
01/12/2011 21:39

So the staus-quo will continue?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
01/12/2011 21:42

Status quo are briilant and have a new album out

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/12/2011 23:31

Ultimately for the two sides to come together both sides need to move towards a uniting vision.

Have we heard either of the two leaders say something like:



"By uniting as Cypriots we can create so much more than we can achieve alone as separate communities. We can have peace, prosperity and create a splendid future for our children"



Of course both leaders may never think the above is even possible, but all we hear from them is little snipes of blame.



No vision equals no hope

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 19:04

message 96:





your last line "...no vision equals no hope" ...that's bit extreme mark don't you think?

surely, where there's life there's hope (though tragically, not for the euro I'd wager)



for goodness sake it's only no "hope of a deal" you are talking about, not a terminal illness etc

and wise heads like ismet, have pointed out any compromise agreement would be likely to fail

to see turkey intervene again: indeed, cyprus' history might be thought to support such a view



but of course the critical phrase in your first line is "uniting vision"

we would agree both sides are not short of a vision as such, just that they are totally opposite



why oh why a lemming-like leap into unknowable compromise that neither side wants anyway?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 20:26

msge 97



Andre



your last line "...no vision equals no hope" ...that's bit extreme mark don't you think?...for goodness sake it's only no "hope of a deal" you are talking about, not a terminal illness etc"



Lol To be clearer, perhaps I should have said 'No shared vision equals not much hope of a united Cyprus'



Why no shared vision?



Perhaps the leaders feel that they don't truly have a mandate from the people, or perhaps they feel the differences are too wide or perhaps they themselves don't want to lose the current power they have gained.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 21:41

hmmm...



your reply, and other folks' favourable but uninformed comments about

the prospects of change, whether an 82 state or de facto incorporation in

the ROC, as well as your 2008 remark about those talks ie:



"we wait with baited breath",



...suggest reunification hopes is a major "cottage industry" among expats



as I said many times before, it is inappropriate to twitter about a union of the

two administrations when there is no evidence at all of agreement in sight,

indeed, if anything positions have hardened over the last seven years



and as regards the theoretical benefits, probably this amounts to a yearning

for a better-run north cyprus and even a jump in trnc property values



oh and by the way, you can breath again if you choose

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/12/2011 22:46

msge 99



Andre



I am not sure what we are debating here because I think we are in agreement.

We get conflicting and ambiguous messages about how the talks are proceeding. We are all clutching at straws and are searching for indicators of success/failure. I believe a leading indicator of their progress (or lack of it) is how well the leaders communicate a shared and progressive vision. There isn't one, hence an agreement is unlikely. That's how important I think a shared vision is.



You have always been consistent about there never being an agreement. In fact, I have never heard you waver. I could never be so sure, because although I am very mindful of the darkest and tribal side of our human nature, I am also conscious that the human species generally, seems to be on an upwards path to becoming more collaborative and cooperative. Are the Cypriots at this place. Some clearly are but we know the leaders are not.

HairyPeggy01


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
03/12/2011 07:33

Can anybody explain to me how a 'bi-zonal' form of government would work? My fear is that with a 70% majority in any re-unified parliament, the Greek Cypriots could vote in any laws they wanted.

The people in the south waste no opportunity to make life difficult, at times impossible, for Turkish Cypriots. Why wouldn't they carry on doing that in a re-unified state?

Problem is, the two sides want totally different things. The north wants to live in peace. The south wants the whole island for themselves; with all Turkish Cypriots off the island. EOKA sentiments maybe asleep, but they are not dead.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
03/12/2011 13:39

mark,



we must guess "how the talks are proceeding" since, leaks aside, they are in private



what is clear is that this post-annan excercise has lasted three years failing to deliver agreement

...more to the point, the resolution most greek cypriots seem to want, contradicts basic cypriot/ turkish

ideas of a compromise to reunify the island but "separately"



it is probably true that a minority of people in the north, including a possible majority of those on this

forum think things could turn out differently ...or positively as you may choose to call it



as far as greek cypriot demands are concerned these are wholly reasonable and have international

support, though without the prospect of any direct intervention securing the return of their lost lands:



and this could only be achieved at the expense of those settled in north cyprus as well as the strategic

and national interests of the regional power, so there can be little prospect of change in our time

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/12/2011 16:33

Msg 102, "those who settled in north Cyprus"

do you mean Mainlanders or ex-pats?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
05/12/2011 09:01

message 103:



"those who settled in north cyprus"



I meant exactly that, not cypriots whose folks were born on the island



but any distinction between cypriots and the others may not be as clear

as some would have us believe



couples where one or both was born on the mainland:

how are their children to be classified?

turkish cypriots raised in australia or london maybe with british partners?

then there are citizen-settlers whose homes and lives are entirely based in the trnc



but if you refer to (british) ex-pats,

well yes, I did mean to imply that they would be the mercy of foreign invaders

such as an eu or mainland greek army

...but of course when you actually type that it looks ludicrous



many foreigners with a connection to north cyprus could write a book

about its faults etc., which begs two questions-



how did they get to be there in the first place?

why winge about a reunification/modernision process of unknown conditions

and not even in prospect?

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
05/12/2011 21:14

msg 88: sorry to disapoint you, but majority of the Tc did not vote in favour of the annan plan, the only resone why we got a large % of yes vote, was voted by the Turkish mainlanders.



Also along with the threat from Ankara that we would be punished if we were seen as the side saying No.



it was a game by Ankara to shrag of the obligations of the UN and pass the buck to the Gc. Loot at the report on the no of turnout from the north, considering that the Tc popullation is not even that high and the number of votes casted. lets look from the Gc side, would you agree to a plan that would see mainland turks from becoming a citizen of Cyprus and E.U

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
05/12/2011 22:15

Msg 105, erkin,



In the messages above you were claiming that the Annan plan, or a plan like Annan was the solution and that the Turkish side were the obstruction. I pointed out that the Turkish side voted yes, and it was the Greek side that voted NO. So if anything, the Greek side not the Turkish side are responsible for that plan not coming in to being.



Now you are claiming that it makes a difference whether the people in the North that voted become TRNC citizens in 1574 or 1974 or 2004. If anything, if you believe an Annan like plan is the perfect solution, and that these people in the majority voted for it and Turkey encouraged it then you should be pleased as that is what you wanted?



Many millions of people have gained US / EU / or another nationality other than that they were born with, or that their parents were born with. This gives them the right to vote, and once they gain it there is no distinction between that vote and the vote of somebody that was a citizen before

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
05/12/2011 22:48

Msg 106, I think you missed the difference between

T/C and Turkish is the post 105,

something totally different

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 12:13

msg 107



No, I didn't miss that difference. That's the point that I am making. For the purposes of citizenship, voting rights, etc, it makes no difference when the individuals become a TRNC citizen, in 1574 or 1974 or later. Once somebody satisfies the rule to be a citizen of a country, that's the end of it. Their vote counts the same as somebody whose ancestors where a citizen of that countr for 1000 years.



e.g. Using the same logic as the average Turkish Cypriot in Cyprus: Are the London Mayoral elections or referendums null and void because the vast majority of voters in some wards in London are from Ethnic backgrounds? See this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London



Nearly half of the entire population of London in 2007 are of foreign origin.. Today it would be over 50%. So the indigenous could claim that elections were void, as they voted for the BNP candidate Barnbrook, and if it wasn't for the non-white vote going to Boris or Ken the Barnbrook would have

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
06/12/2011 12:31

It should also be noted that Turkish Cypriots in London are not eligible to vote in TRNC elections, even if they own property and pay taxes there and would care about the countries future.. These same people however are eligible for military service....



Also, how many ex-pats who have an interest in North Cyprus, who may have invested their life savings in the country actually vote or have the right to vote in the TRNC elections?

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 07:32

Msg 108:



Thats the whole problem, Mainlanders were not citiziens of TRNC when the voting took place. If they were then no problem, but if you care to read the articles in the Havadis and Kibris newspapers on last monday, many people were using their R.o.T ID cards to vote, these people were not on any list. Even Mr Talat after the voting admited that more than 2000 people were sent from Ankara to go around asking the people to vote in favour.



Yes I still see the annan plan as the plan that would have worked, and yes i agree that Gc voted against the annan plan, but the point that you missed was that these people are not citiziens of TRNC, one of Turkeys policies since 74, is to increase the number of people in TRNC to over 1,000,000.



How many Tc benefited from land distrubutions of 74? none while Land was being given out to mainlanders to move to TRNC, but the Goverment did not implement ANY rules on these people, so most of the mainlanders resold the land withing years of

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 07:40

moving to TRNC, and built homes back in Turkey. Even over the last few weeks despite in the last elections, all parties assured that no land will be given away, only in the last few days in the Bafra district the Goverment is still giving away Gc land to mainlanders.



In realtions to mainlanders TRNC nationality was given to over 80'000 between 1974-1978, without any checks on background. Get on a plane move to TRNC and apply for a citizenship that was the only rule.



the ? that is asked is why no incentive was given to the TRNC to return back from the UK, at the time of the 74-75 there were over 100,000 Tc in London.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 11:47

Erkin,

I'm glad you accept that the reason Annan failed was due to GC no vote.

Are you also saying that it would have been No in TRNC if the mainlanders did not vote? I think not, as I remember the YES campaign in the North was strongly supported, whereas in the South "Oxi" was stronger.

I completely agree with your comment: "the ? that is asked is why no incentive was given to the TRNC to return back from the UK, at the time of the 74-75 there were over 100,000 Tc in London."



I'd add it was the exact opposite. Many 10,000s were told if they stepped foot in the country they would be put in the Army for 2 years, without any consideration for their families or businesses built abroad. In addition, many had lost land/businesses/etc in the South, and got nothing in return.

The majority that I know today that have some property in the North bought it from somebody who was given it, either ESD or TMD.

In conclusion, anything the TRNC politicians could have done wrong, they did it.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:11

No better way of telling the story, TRNC people sold down the drain by its own goverment over the mainlanders as a thanks to RoT for the intervention. thats all it boils down too, well as u might have seen in the press today, over the illegal immigrant rules amended in order for the mainlanders to gain even more power.



this goverment has gone mad.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:28

Erkin, as they say "parayı veren düdüğü çalar".. Turkey provides and therefore wants influence.



EU / IMF / USA is the same. When they give, they take.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 12:53

Very true indeed, when are we going to wake up and deal with this nightmare. Even more so when the Tc in the UK going to wake up and return back home before it is too late.



otherwise the onlyplace we will have in Cyprus will be the buffer zone at this rate.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 17:04

Unfortunately, when they discouraged many 10,000s of people from returning post '74, they lost them forever. They could never be convinced to return, for love nor money. They married outside in the UK/USA/Canada/Australia, to English, Italians, Russian, etc. They have businesses and kids who are grown up now and doing the same. They've got no connection in Cyprus. Their families, money, income, job, pension is all abroad. TRNC has never given them anything, and has nothing to offer them but hassle. Why would they return and waste a day's holiday queuing up in ASAL sube waiting for "60 day conditional exit paper?".



Many lost everything in the south, and got nothing in north. A few bought some land off a TC or Turk who gained it free through ESD or TMD. Many more didn't bother. The ones that didn't are enjoying their new life, holidaying in USA/Italia/etc. The ones that did are still waiting for a refund from CTA!

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 17:09

I can uinderstand their anger, I have only moved back 2 years ago myself from london after 45 years and starting to regret it, so now i am living with the Gc in Nicosia and working in the south, and lot better feeling.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 18:08

The ridiculous situation is that all of the Turkish Cypriots in the UK have British / EU passports. Should they wish to, they can go and live, work, holiday in any other EU country for as long as they wish, without any military service obligations. This includes South Cyprus.



However, all 100,000s of them when they visit North Cyprus are only permitted to stay for a maximum of 60 days. Even within that time they must go to Asal Sube in Nicosia and get "cikis izni". If they do not, they will have massive problems at the airport on exit. Their lives, jobs, travel plans, bank balance will suffer serious disruption until they obtain that piece of paper.



If they decide to move back and invest tehre, and they do stay more than 60 days, they must complete military service or pay X thousands of pounds. You can understand why many do not get involved... Money doesn't grow on trees.

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 20:14

Yes ok I agree with your argument, but at the end of the day, how can we resolve the army service if everyones runs away from it.



That's one of the reasons why i want to see a totally free of army in Cyprus, otherwise we all have obligation to our nations.



We are not in a position like most E.U countries to have speacial teams of army like the UK.



Also bare in mind that you can live in Cyprus greekside as a turk without doing your army but if you were a Gc then they are in the same situation and in fact worse, as they have to do 25 months army service whereas we only have to do 15 months.



or pay your way out of it.

zcacmxi


Joined: 30/11/2008
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
07/12/2011 23:06

To be honest, I think this is the final solution, what we have now. What we desire or want may not be exactly what we see now, but the current situation suits many people:



- South / ROC have an international recognised government and EU membership.

- Turkey have a nice offshore location, to protect Turkish southern border. They have direct flights to Ercan from any Turkish airport.

- EU have a reason to keep Turkey out of the club.

- Other billion people in the world don't care for 100,000 TCs on a small island.



The mugs like us have suffered all our life, and will continue to suffer. We may have wanted direct flights from UK for past 35 years, but who cares about us? UK not listening, USA not listening, EU not listening.



What can we do?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 02:48

Not many ex-pats comments?

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
08/12/2011 07:17

I woudl disagree with that, this is not the best as it gets, I think that a 11th hour agreement will be reached somehow, E.U and the US can not sit back and watch Turkey take over the island as the 82nd state. We will reach some kind of Agreement, i think like Taiwan style may be reached very soon.if not the maybe TRNC state on its own can be reached if the Eroglu plays the cards right.