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Marian Stokes HBPG founder facing expulsion from NC

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Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 18:21

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Message 1 of 119 in Discussion

Surprised that no one has commented on Marians plight. If anyone deserves support, she does.

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT291108_visas.html



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 18:53

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Message 2 of 119 in Discussion

i totally agree hector. some how i'm not suprised though.



rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 18:55

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Message 3 of 119 in Discussion

Just seen this posting on another BB



"On a similar note, a freind of mine knows a local who clears the paperwork for containers coming in and out of the country. In the month of November 90 containers containing house goods Etc left the country, and only three arrived?????? I wonder why that was? He said it was the worst month for imports he had ever seen."



If that's not a sign of what's happening I don't know what is.



negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 19:05

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Message 4 of 119 in Discussion

group hug anyone ?





Nick



bachelibelly


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 275

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 19:26

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Message 5 of 119 in Discussion

I dont know, all the Poles goin back to Poland ,all the Brits goin back to Britain,

wonder how long before Brown and Darling f**k off back to Scotland !!!!!



kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 19:35

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Message 6 of 119 in Discussion

the work being done to try tidy up the whole industry by HBPG and marian needs support from all .



the TRNC governement should employ her to straighten it all out and enforce some rules if its to succeed in the big world with other countries.



TRNC governement needs to sell tourism and real estate ,with no direct flights and house industry tarnished it needs to think outside the box and get marian on its side .



kav



phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 19:38

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Message 7 of 119 in Discussion

Entirely agree with kavenkoy.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 19:43

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Message 8 of 119 in Discussion

Appears that the Brits are voting with their feet. Is this because of the way they have been treated or because they can't afford to stay or are facing being thrown off the island for financial reasons? If I can sell my apartment, I think I will join them.



Maddie



Joined: 16/11/2008
Posts: 147

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 19:54

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Message 9 of 119 in Discussion

Agree with Kavenkoy. Also having recently arrived I could do with a group hug



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:10

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Message 10 of 119 in Discussion

don't fight the system just go with the flow!

lots of people came here with insufficient funds to last long term, also the financial situ around the rest of the world changes things for lots of people.

maybe thats why so many people are leaving.



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:11

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Message 11 of 119 in Discussion

This is indeed a sorry state of affairs and I hope the government do take note of the need to change the laws to protect buyers, and do so quickly. This will have a positive effect on the economy and the TRNC as a whole. Marian works tirelessly to help buyers and, as a volunteer at the HBPG surgeries, every week we hear first hand the dire situation people are in. Ismet, Marian and I have been involved in trying to raise awareness about the need to repeal the Specific Performance Law and hopefully this will have a positive outcome, but this is only one hurdle. The HBPG does need the support of the thousands of buyers here because the problems affect everyone who hasn't received their title deeds, who has mortgages on their land, who are being blackmailed or threatened by their vendor etc. If everyone took the time to just write a letter to the press, or bring awareness to the problems, or support Marian and the HBPG, hopefully it will have a postive outcome for buyers



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:12

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Message 12 of 119 in Discussion

I am not quite sure what is going on here, have there been any threatened deportations by the authorities? I have not seen any evidence (Ok I know about the Petch family) but I would have thought the last thing they needed to do would be to make their worries high profile.

And for deecyprus4 no I am not gloating just stating the way I feel about the situation (purely for discussion purposes you understand).

AJ



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:13

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Message 13 of 119 in Discussion

and the construction industry as a whole. I believe the TRNC has unique qualities that can help it weather the global economic crisis, if the laws are changed, thus bringing confidence back into the housing market and the TRNC economy.



Sibel



gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:24

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Message 14 of 119 in Discussion

This is what gets me,you have to have sufficient funds to cover you for the length of your tempory residency.The Immigration official in this weeks paper stated that there is no lower limit to what money you have to have to satisfy them,only you have enough to support yourself and not become a burden to the State.

Would someone like to tell us all what we (foreigners) are entitled to claim from the State if anyone did get into financial difficulties.

I'll have a tenner says your'e entitled to bugger all so how can you become a burden to the State??



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:27

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Message 15 of 119 in Discussion

I think it is right that Marian and her partner have their case made high profile maybe there is a small chance that those in charge will engage their brains and realise that all of this is doing this wonderful country a great disservice.



Have to agree with FS regarding those leaving. Too many people come here and to other countries around the Med. with great thoughts and ideas but without any regard to potential problems. First being inflation in double figures. Second issues around the building industry, which apply again throught the world. Could use the word naiive but sorry to say the real word is stupidity!!



Maddie, of course you can have a hug. Many of us share them here. What you need to do to survive is become Cypriot - YAVAS, YAVAS is the key. The other is to ignore 90% of what you read on forums like this. If you want official info go to the department involved, test your little Turkish, then have some more hugs. You will love it here.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:29

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Message 16 of 119 in Discussion

i wonder if the deportation rules are the same here as in the uk?

are you exited from your point of arrival? to where you came from?

so how many people would be deported to the south? interesting thought!



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:50

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Message 17 of 119 in Discussion

kavankoy: "the TRNC governement should employ her to straighten it all out and enforce some rules"



I can't see a tinpot, incompetant and racist administration (led by the nose by Turkey) taking kindly to being advised by a foreigner.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 20:56

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Message 18 of 119 in Discussion

kibrissibel: "The HBPG does need the support of the thousands of buyers here because the problems affect everyone who hasn't received their title deeds, who has mortgages on their land, who are being blackmailed or threatened by their vendor etc. If everyone took the time to just write a letter to the press, or bring awareness to the problems, or support Marian and the HBPG, hopefully it will have a postive outcome for buyers."



The HBPG does do sterling work but writing letters to the press is an complete and utter waste of time. The Turkish ruling mentality does not appreciate such gestures. The mistake was made when people handed over money to unscrupulous individuals for something that would never be theirs to own. From the Turkish handouts to the money-laundering casinos and selling of Greek Cypriot land, the TRNC economy is based and founded on lawlessness. Hell mend those who acted foolishly.



rosie123


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 21:03

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Message 19 of 119 in Discussion

Maybe its part of the plan,the more that leave now & the bad pubilcity on buying in North Cyprus,might make things easier when or if there is a settlement



smithy


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 5301

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 21:04

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Message 20 of 119 in Discussion

Gooligan, Hooray I agree you wouldn't get anything off the government here, so why is it necessary to have thousands in the bank, we are not asking for anything if you did your would'nt get it

Smithy



gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 21:49

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Message 21 of 119 in Discussion

Exactly.



Now where's my tenner?



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 22:26

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Message 22 of 119 in Discussion

Complete support here for the sterling work done by Marion Stokes and all at the HBPG.

Clearly the situations that we hear about on this forum are very disturbing.

Marion s situation is new to me and I, and I am sure many others,fully support here in her struggle.



Without doubt the work of the HBPG has helped many hundreds of people to tackle their TRNC property issues. I believe that Marion has earned a great deal of respect from members of the TRNC administration and most certainly from ex pat residents old and new.

I do hope that a solution to her predicament is quick to arrive.



rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 23:26

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Message 23 of 119 in Discussion

maddie looking at your picture I would think you get plenty of offers of hugs if not just join facebook



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
01/12/2008 23:31

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Message 24 of 119 in Discussion

Message 18



Freedom of Speech

We respect every member's right to post his/her opinions, on all issues except ones questioning the legality of TRNC.

If you do not accept this rule, do not post on the board.

Any violations of this rule will result in immediate cancellation of your membership.



I fear Pike will be voted off by the mods....



augusta



Joined: 10/06/2008
Posts: 173

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 00:32

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Message 25 of 119 in Discussion

I agree that Marion Stokes deserves all the support we can give. I am actually surprised that her situation is not well known. Perhaps more people should go public. I do not understand what PtePike means when he says " the Turkish ruling mentality doesn't appreciate such gestures".



Since arriving here in the TRNC in June to find that things were not quite as I expected, I have learned a lot at the weekly meetings and through their website.



wearytravellers



Joined: 27/04/2007
Posts: 250

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 03:06

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Message 26 of 119 in Discussion

Would anyone be interested in donating 5 quid a MONTH towards Marian's plight.............we would !



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 08:45

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Message 27 of 119 in Discussion

I would also donate . But could we not go down another route where Marain gets paid a proper wage ? could we all sign some sort of pertition requesting government employed Marian ? obviously Marian would need to sanction any requests etc .

With all of the wealth of knowledge on this board , come on let us get some ideas together . what are everyones thoughts on this ?



kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 12:13

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Message 28 of 119 in Discussion

re 17 .



i disagree with that ,i think there is know time for change for 1 reason or another .Mr Talat is a clever man .



but is he a proud man ?,if nothing happens in a way of settlement (and thats a cypriot problem) then he must go it alone to survive .



selling kuzzey kibris is his unique selling point ......on one side tourism ,the other a fair haven for foreigners to invest ,can just sell olive oil and cheese etc .



so in my opinion having a major asset like marian on your team to advise and look at it from advsior is crucial .If Mr talat reads these boards have a think and keep marian here and have her in your corner tidying up whats needed .



kav



yep a fiver would be good etc



rwilson


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 87

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 12:38

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Message 29 of 119 in Discussion

I guess the TRNC have every right to decide the criteria they apply to let people stay in their country.



However, the immediate problem is that Marian is needed by homeowners here. Everyone benefits from her work and suggesting the government employ her is unlikely to work.



So what about a monthkly, or annual fund at 50 a year per family. This could be paid into a UK account, so its not TNC income.



This is no charity account - its a small amount to pay for the work someone is doing for us.



gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 13:53

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Message 30 of 119 in Discussion

Totally agree, but could it be a little less or paid monthly think you will get more people interested.

With the Credit Crunch people are struggling.



cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 15:58

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Message 31 of 119 in Discussion

Ptepike message 18 I think you underestimate the power of the press. Writing letters and articles raises awareness for other potential buyers. If the corrupt lawyers and developers are exposed people will eventually stop buying from them and they'll be save from experiencing the nightmare that so many people are going through now.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 17:03

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Message 32 of 119 in Discussion

Augusta: "I do not understand what PtePike means when he says " the Turkish ruling mentality doesn't appreciate such gestures".



I mean what I say. The Turkish authorities have consistently ignored expert advice and outside assistance. They won't lose face by admitting they are useless. The last time expats asked if they could demonstrate their discontent at the property rip-off scandal they were told they would be arrested (something that doesn't happen to TCs/Turks).



I'm sorry to sound blunt, but the first time something goes wrong for you as a foreigner you will find out you're a second-class citizen as far as the TRNC is concerned. You have no constitutional rights and even the EU won't be able to help you because you're in an illegal "state".



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 17:15

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Message 33 of 119 in Discussion

Groucho msg 24,



There are other ways to try and get someone thrown off the board. An email may work this time, you never know.



the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 21:15

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Message 34 of 119 in Discussion

Hi Kibrissibel,



I agree with you that the power of the press should be a wonderful tool but our developer, who has taken out a mortgage on our land and properties is the press. This newspaper recently ran a crusade of naming and shaming crooked lawyers, estate agents, builders and developers. We the owners watched on in disbelief. I don't think the rival paper would be interested in our story either, as don't they all stick together? While I really believe Marion Stokes does a wonderful job for all expats, when she challenged our developer he threatened to sue her for a million pounds. Now I believe they are the best of friends. So can someone tell me what we can do next? I do think Marion should be paid for her services, can this not be done on a charity status?



The Butler



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 22:00

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Message 35 of 119 in Discussion

The Butler - I will email you off board.



Sibel



phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 22:12

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Message 36 of 119 in Discussion

Sorry, but can't resist this. Anyone spot Pike's spelling mistake?



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 22:16

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Message 37 of 119 in Discussion

phlray,



I thought the general opinion on the board was the highlighting of typos/spelling mistakes was rather foolish. One finger pointing but three pointing at you, and all that...



Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 22:19

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Message 38 of 119 in Discussion

What spelling mistake?



Lem



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
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Message Posted:
02/12/2008 22:25

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Message 39 of 119 in Discussion

That's what I was thinking. Does she mean today or is it a trawl back - something we can all do...



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 22:31

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Message 40 of 119 in Discussion

The Butler,

I cant see Marian Stokes and Ali Saffa from Medview being the best of friends. I think Mr Saffa realized it would do his business more harm than good by suing her. As you say, he should put his own house/villa in order before he starts throwing mud at others who are doing the same. But still, it is publicity for the plight of the homebuyers here. Try the Cyprus Today you might be pleasantly surprised.



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 23:11

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Message 41 of 119 in Discussion

John

"I'm sorry to sound blunt, but the first time something goes wrong for you as a foreigner you will find out you're a second-class citizen as far as the TRNC is concerned."

Even worse for the Petch family that were born and bred in the UK, paid their taxes and NI and had to return to their homeland only to be told that there is no council or government department willing to help them. At least we all know where we stand in the TRNC but going back to the UK might provide some surprises for a lot of Brit Expats.



ChesterSue1


Joined: 02/11/2008
Posts: 67

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 23:20

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Message 42 of 119 in Discussion

The Butler - Msg 34



It would appear that the Editor of The Cyprus Times is revealing daily the "Adventures of Ali Safa" - reading them leaves me to believe that there is not a lot of love between them. So perhaps the Press do not stick together.



Sue.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 23:24

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Message 43 of 119 in Discussion

AJ Msg 41,



It's sad for them as I'm sure they were decent people, but what kind of administration would deport someone for what they allegedly did?



Feeling as sorry for them as you undoubtedly do, what do you think of the TRNC for doing that to them?



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 23:33

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Message 44 of 119 in Discussion

government rather than governement



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 23:43

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Message 45 of 119 in Discussion

John

You obviously know nothing of what has happened unless of course you have availed yourself of the online newspapers. Now as a so called hack I would expect you to keep up to date with a country (the TRNC) that you so obviously have an interest in. Perhaps you might need to do a little bit more research. Let me know what you come up with and I will tell you whether you are on the right track or not. Happy keyboard pounding.



rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 23:45

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Message 46 of 119 in Discussion

if u r referring to message 17 perhaps one who is incompetent also spells incompetant wrongly



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
02/12/2008 23:53

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Message 47 of 119 in Discussion

John

Sorry I forgot to answer the question,

"Feeling as sorry for them as you undoubtedly do, what do you think of the TRNC for doing that to them?"

Agents of their own misfortune and I know this statement will cause a bit of controversy but after you do your research and then you tell me what you know (as well as anyone else) about the TRNC's residency laws and work permit laws then the TRNC government had no choice.



the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 00:28

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Message 48 of 119 in Discussion

Hi ChesterSue1,



Msg 34



I am interested in the articles in The Cyprus Times, do you know if you can read this paper online? As I am not in Cyprus at the moment, I cannot buy it.



The Butler



ChesterSue1


Joined: 02/11/2008
Posts: 67

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 02:11

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Message 49 of 119 in Discussion



Sorry



But it seems it is not online.



Sue



Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 02:37

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Message 50 of 119 in Discussion

If you have nothing more intersting to say or do on this thread other than go back and look through all the posts to nit pick a typo made 30 posts ago. ,

PLEASE "get a life"...



w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 02:45

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Message 51 of 119 in Discussion

Mssg 41 AJ you have to blame the current UK Government (think I spelt it right) for that.



Marion: Yes a fund to keep her in TRNC (where she wants to be) - I will donate 5 a month (and I'm on a 3 day week). However, knowing how she thinks, I doubt she would accept it? She has vowed never worked for payment, just tireless work to help other people in need. An absolute saint.



If the TRNC Government don't offer her a job sorting out the mess, then they have to be extremely stupid, in fact even more stupid than I ever thought that they are, and my opinion of them is in the gutter!



wearytravellers



Joined: 27/04/2007
Posts: 250

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 03:22

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Message 52 of 119 in Discussion

Please please please, tell me where to send the Fiver ???



Marion Stokes deserves our support, I have never met her, I have not had any dealings with the HBPG.......Yet !!!



However, if my monthly 5 quid along with yours assures us that somene is available to get advice, assistance or whatever problem one may face, then it is the best 5 quid a month you could spend.



come on.......hands in pockets



Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 04:28

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Message 53 of 119 in Discussion

This all a great gesture and very generous of everyone, but has anyone stopped to think for a second how Marian would take this? she is a very proud woman.

I am sure she will be very touched that everyone feels this way about her but still she is who she is.

Unless someone can tell her in a very tactful way of what is going on she may refuse and if she had any idea that she is being discussed on a BB she would be mortified. I know her.

She is not a member of any BB's , its not who she is.

As for the 5 pound a "month" would that be making a dent in her expenses?( unless it was over a 100 persons = 500 a month, I dont live there, so I cant say how much it takes for living expenses).

Do the math, the people wishing to donate , if each person donated the cost of a drink a week it would be a bit more like a tenner a month which would be a bit more realistic. Every little bit helps.

i hope you can see what i am trying to say.

All you jokers take a deep breath and stay out of this.



Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 04:36

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Message 54 of 119 in Discussion

Wanst there a company that started right after all the crap hit the fan and every one ran to join and paid their 25 quid, all in vain.

What was the name of that law firm or something that promised to "fight back"

just think if that money had been sent to HBPG instead.

At least they are still hanging in there and helping people , as for the "other company" what a waste of money.

The name will come to me as soon as i end this posting.



wearytravellers



Joined: 27/04/2007
Posts: 250

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 06:12

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Message 55 of 119 in Discussion

Turbo



unlike you, I don't know Marian, however, it appears this Lady devotes an awful lot of time to people who need her help, and she gives it FREELY !!!



There are an awful lot of members on this site and if we managed to get 40% of the members to give the aforementioned Fiver a month (for a period to get her and her team, out of a bad personal position) it will have all been worthwhile. Marian, needs to know, that there are people that really care what happens to her (complete strangers as in my case). I,m sure the vast majority of posters might agree.



I guess what I,m trying to say is: Give marian a call if she's your friend, tell her what's going on, ask her to swallow her pride and accept help, get the bank account details post it....and let the help begin !!!



This lady is needed in KKTC......REALLY NEEDED for the benefit of all Ex Pats, so make it happen ?????



Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 08:19

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Message 56 of 119 in Discussion

Wearytravellers,

Like you said she gives her help "freely"

I am sure if there was a posting on HBPG signed or a similar message sent by a numerous number of members I am sure she will get a better idea of how people value her and care about her.

One phone call from me will not accomplish what a large number of people can .

If someone has a better suggestion , please put out here so we can see.



I don't know how you could generate an email and have all involved add their name to it, this BB does not have the facility for that, it would show her how much people actually care.

I am not going to mention it to her, she may see it as a charity case, she wouldn't like that.

So , suggestions please....

Izzet , is there way of making a sticky that every one can add their personal message or jsut sign it? Then it can be printed out and presented to her.

I cant think of any other way that you would be able to break down her wall or pride.

Suggestions??



Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 08:29

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Message 57 of 119 in Discussion

It would also be insulting if it turns out to be just several people.

I do not wish to undertake this task. You all have the best intentions.

I cant even be a part of this.. sorry.



Its up to anyone else that wishes to make it happen.



For the record, i have no part in this.

Other than sharing my thoughts (not because I dont care, on the contrary, I do care, a lot) someone please take charge.

I would also prefer if I am not mentioned in any communique .

Good luck.



deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 08:30

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Message 58 of 119 in Discussion

does she not look in on cyprus 44



Turbo


Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 833

Message Posted:
03/12/2008 08:40

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Message 59 of 119 in Discussion

She is not a member on any BB.(as far as I know)

She doesn't have time ,also she is not interested in BB's, I can understand why..



the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
04/12/2008 10:07

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Message 60 of 119 in Discussion

Hi Chestersue,



Thanks for telling me about the articles in Cyprus Times, regarding Ali Safa,

as I can't read these articles on line and I am not in Cyprus. Would it be possible for you to email me off board stephenmeacher@aol.com and explain what the articles were about? Thanking you it would be much appreciated.



The Butler



gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
04/12/2008 11:07

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Message 61 of 119 in Discussion

Basically it seems that an organisation needs to be established within the TRNC. That would need a panel (would it not) and the panel wishes to employ Marion Stokes.

Would she accept the position?



So someone needs to speak with Marion about this! But first surly we need to know all the facts first.

Do we need to have a LTD company established? as this is effectively a business.

What about a panel, is one needed, I would have thought so.

How do you fund this?

How much is a realistic wage in the TRNC?

How many hours should the organisation fund MS for?



We are all aware that this is something that is really needed, and Marion gives up her time to champion this cause for all foriegners buying in the TRNC.



Can someone comment on this please.

A lot of work is needed to start this up.



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
04/12/2008 12:36

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Message 62 of 119 in Discussion

An emergency property owners meeting by the HBPG is being held on Wednesday the 10th December 2008 at 12 noon in the Pia Bella Hotel, Girne to discuss the predicament surrounding property purchase, including:



non transfer of title deeds

borrowing against properties that you have paid for

exorbitant interest rates being charged for non-payment of loans

risk of eviction due to landowners non-repayment of loans

abandoned incomplete properties/sites

what happens in Court

lawyers negligence

Some buyers will give a brief summary of the pitfalls they have endured and what they are doing to find a solution.



Everyone is welcome to come along and join in, we all need to support each other.



This affects thousands of buyers here so if you want to support

Marian, the HBPG and all purchasers here, please attend.



Sibel



gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
04/12/2008 12:54

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Message 63 of 119 in Discussion

Would love to but in UK. You need a web cam !!!



gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
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Message Posted:
04/12/2008 14:31

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Message 64 of 119 in Discussion

Suddenly this issue has gone very quite, on both Bulletins of Marian's.







Have we already lost interest!!!







OR has it been sorted?



rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
05/12/2008 21:23

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Message 65 of 119 in Discussion

Or is it more a reflection on this BB?



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/12/2008 21:28

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Message 66 of 119 in Discussion

Hector,



If it becomes nescessary for the bucket to be passed around, I would like to be the first in line.



Please E mail me.



A first class Lady of the highest integrity, who gave selflessly of her time and talents, to help those who were less well off. We wish her well.



wyn



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
05/12/2008 21:43

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Message 67 of 119 in Discussion

message 66

count me in



WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
05/12/2008 22:35

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Message 68 of 119 in Discussion

5/ month from me too.

Never met the lady but having been on HBPG site and read reports upon her in the newspaper she is indeed someone that deserves support.



ChesterSue1


Joined: 02/11/2008
Posts: 67

Message Posted:
05/12/2008 22:38

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Message 69 of 119 in Discussion



Hello The Butler,



I hope email geys to you.



Sue.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
05/12/2008 22:45

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Message 70 of 119 in Discussion

wynyardman: "If it becomes nescessary for the bucket to be passed around, I would like to be the first in line."



Bit early in the evening for that, even for some people.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/12/2008 22:49

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Message 71 of 119 in Discussion

Pike,



If that what passes for humour where you come from leave me out!



I know of no more worthy cause in the TRNC than Marion Stokes, and I, and any decently minded person find your comment offensive.



wyn



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 13:09

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Message 72 of 119 in Discussion

I dont think Maid Marian is at the stage where she hasn't got a bucket to piss in or lost her sense of humour.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/12/2008 20:11

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Message 73 of 119 in Discussion

BillyB

How do you know that?



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
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Message Posted:
06/12/2008 22:18

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Message 74 of 119 in Discussion

I believe Maid Marian was suprised the article was focused on her instead of the problems as a whole.

See Cyprus Today, she would be delighted if people showed their support by turning up on wednesday at the Pia Bella urgent meeting. Power in numbers, tell all your friends.



Navek



Joined: 01/06/2008
Posts: 2656

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 09:23

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Message 75 of 119 in Discussion

An emergency property owners meeting by the HBPG is being held on Wednesday the 10th December 2008 at 12 noon in the Pia Bella Hotel, Girne to discuss the predicament surrounding property purchase, including:





non transfer of title deeds



borrowing against properties that you have paid for



exorbitant interest rates being charged for non-payment of loans



risk of eviction due to landowners non-repayment of loans



abandoned incomplete properties/sites



what happens in Court



lawyers negligence



Some buyers will give a brief summary of the pitfalls they have endured and what they are doing to find a solution.







Everyone is welcome to come along and join in, we all need to support each other.







This affects thousands of buyers here so if you want to support



Marian, the HBPG and all purchasers here, please attend.







Sibel



BTTT



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 10:03

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Message 76 of 119 in Discussion

i Really wish i could be there as this is a very important meeting for all who have or intend to buy property in the TRNC , i hope someone will post feedback as soon as the meeting is finished .



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 15:51

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Message 77 of 119 in Discussion

I have just returned from the HBPG meeting and I must say that I had expected a much larger turnout.



The speakers were either from Buyers Committees who joined forces to sort out the problems on their developments, or purchasers who are in the process of court action with either their landowner or developer.



All of the speakers have been assisted by Marian Stokes and have managed to unearth valuable information in relation to their own individual cases, much of which would have remained hidden had they done nothing.



Resolving property issues is not going to happen without collective action by the buyers. It never ceases to amaze me how many people are happy for someone else to sort out the mess that they are in. This is your money.



Because of the economic crisis, the muck really will hit the fan next year and many more buyers will realise that they are also affected.



For those who have their permission to purchase but no title deed, you need to take action now.........



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 16:04

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Message 78 of 119 in Discussion

There is always a reason why something hasn't happened but it doesn't mean that you have to accept it or that nothing can be done.



The TRNC government have systematically failed to address the numerous property issues and have only themselves to blame. The economy is in crisis but there is millions of Turkish Lira owed in taxes. If you want your title deed, start campaigning.



For those who have not yet received their permission to purchase, don't bury your head in the sand and think this will not affect you.



jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 16:17

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Message 79 of 119 in Discussion

what do you do when the cyprus solution has not even been sorted out yet.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 16:25

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Message 80 of 119 in Discussion

Hi Molly thanks for update . What does the HBPG say we need to do if we have not got our deeds ?



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
10/12/2008 16:52

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Message 81 of 119 in Discussion

What's the Cyprus solution got to do with anything??



sorry to disappoint but it ain't going to happen!



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
10/12/2008 16:53

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Message 82 of 119 in Discussion

Pipie



Find out why.



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
10/12/2008 16:54

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Message 83 of 119 in Discussion

Pipie



Find out why.....



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 17:10

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Message 84 of 119 in Discussion

Pipie - you need to start asking questions and gathering information about the reason you haven't got your deeds.



1) Have you got your PTP? If not, have you checked why with the interior ministry?

2) Is the vendor refusing to pay his taxes/parcelise the plot?

3) Is the land mortgaged? If so, which bank? Have you spoken to the manager of the bank to get information about it?

4) Is there a building permit?

5) Is the vendor just refusing for the hell of it?

6) Are the land owner and the builder the same? Are they in dispute with each other? Who is the land owner on your Kocan?

etc, etc.



If anyone has any questions they can come to the HBPG surgeries on Tuesdays 12-3pm at Pia Bella

Sibel



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 18:16

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Message 85 of 119 in Discussion

I agree with Molly, the turn out was disappointing.



There were two groups that Marian obviously expected. One company with 600 sold properties, the other with 900 properties most known to have problems. I saw 1 person put up their hand belonging to either Santa Fe or Boyut. Where were the rest.



One of the key points is people MUST work together. Builders etc work on divide and rule principle. ie they tell you one thing and your neighbour something else. If you do not talk then you end up getting skinned by them.



So, the site you are on you must get together into a formal group. Marian and the gang will help and advise but you are going to have to do the work yourselves. Yes, it is difficult but to those who spend a lot of effort on the forums telling us of their problems change your emphasis and get out on the streets on the internet etc and find all of your neighbours. Get together and defeat the opposition with positive action.



Start to fight you will get support.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 18:31

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Message 86 of 119 in Discussion

Thankyou so Much Sibel . Could i just ask what is a reasonabkle time to expect deeds ? providing you already have PTP



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 18:59

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Message 87 of 119 in Discussion

Like a lot of property 'owner's in NC I am based in the UK and visit regularly but avoid the winter. Was the turnout poor because most people are in a similar situation? I'm sure it can't be apathy amongst those who live in NC. I am one who has had PTP refused (Turkish tile & near army camp). Oh boy do I want to do something, but what exactly? Please explain how and what I can do to help.



jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
10/12/2008 22:06

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Message 88 of 119 in Discussion

why is there such a hold up with the deeds then, i say the solution has a lot to do with it molly.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 09:16

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Message 89 of 119 in Discussion

The issue of deeds has nothing to do with "the solution".



If the TRNC authorities stopped changing rules and regulations at the latest loud bit of shouting from builders or este agents or whoever, may be the various departments would be able to operate more effectively.



Also because to get anything done here you have to go to several different offices each requiring their bit of paper. If it was all under one roof where people spoke to each other life would be a lot simpler. I should not say this but this government has cretaed that many jobs for the people that supported them to get elected they have no idea who does what anymore.



Final point, Marian and co have done all they can to help with an information system so help you achieve the end product. They give up their free time and even take people who are totally lost to various offices. AGAIN FOR FREE!! So it is up to ourselves to take all the help we can and go around chasing the various departments.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 09:24

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Message 90 of 119 in Discussion

Sorry, page 2



I know a lot of people live in UK but there is nothing anyone here can do to assist directly. You have to come over and do the chasing yourself.



People will object to my comments but unfortuantly that is life in TRNC. You can only do so much by e-mail, telephone etc even those of us who live here do not get resposes from solicitors etc. We just turn up on the doorstep and say we need to talk now!!!!!



There would not be room for all those who are living here to describe the things they have done over last couple of years to achieve progress, but progress there is. People are getting there Kocans, most never come to these forums because they just get on with it.



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 09:35

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Message 91 of 119 in Discussion

Jay 76



The transfer of title has absolutely nothing to do with a Cyprus solution.



Once you have received your permission to purchase, you should be asking for title deed immediately. Even if it is only a shared title at that stage, it is a title deed in your name and you are legally the shared owner.



THE VENDOR OR LANDOWNER decide if you get your title deed or not. Even if your case went to court, a judge CANNOT enforce the transfer of title even if you have paid every penny and more. Even if a judge ruled in your favour, he cannot force the transfer of title. The current laws mean that you can only be awarded compensation. In that case, your next major headache and court case, would be getting the money out of the said Vendor/Landowner.



I am in total agreement with message 89. Don't sit around waiting for Marian and Co. to do all the work. There is so much that can be achieved if people act collectively. Add your name to the Specific Performance petition. cont'



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 09:54

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Message 92 of 119 in Discussion

Cont'd ..



Write letters to the Cyprus Today and the Kibris Star - believe it or not, they are read by ministers and when there is a sustained campaign, changes are made. If everyone who visited this website added their voice for the property laws to be amended, it would have a tremendous impact.



This self-serving government is no different to previous administrations. They have lined their own pockets whilst in power and have treated property purchaser with disdain.



The property market is on its knees, as are many other businesses which have also been affected. Now is a perfect time to press for change and government intervention.



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 10:02

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Message 93 of 119 in Discussion

Molly



"This self-serving government is no different to previous administrations. They have lined their own pockets whilst in power and have treated property purchaser with disdain. "



You may believe this but what you are accusing the government of would be regarded as a serious slander in most countries...



Apart from hearsay, of which there is plenty to be had, what absolute proof do you have? You might need such proof.



Wild allegations do not help yours or anybody else's case...



I'm not an apologist for ineptitude but I also don't like trial by rumour.



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 10:09

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Message 94 of 119 in Discussion

They are certainly starting to fret now. If Turkey were cease their funding of the TRNC, there'd be a riot in a month. All those unpaid wages - imagine.



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 10:10

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Message 95 of 119 in Discussion

They are certainly starting to fret now. If Turkey were to cease their funding of the TRNC, there'd be a riot in a month. All those unpaid wages - imagine.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 10:17

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Message 96 of 119 in Discussion

Does anyone Know if Marian will continue to reside in the TRNC ? was there any mention of this at the meeting ?



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 10:38

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Message 97 of 119 in Discussion

No, nothing mentioned. Business as usual.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 10:58

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Message 98 of 119 in Discussion

Thanks Molly .



Maybe another way is to refuse to pay VAT to bullders unless we have deeds i realise that is difficult for ones who have already paid but for those of us that have not ,could this be a good barganing tool ? up to now there are no penalties for paying VAT late . and also it is a lot of money for the government . just a thought .what does everyone else think ?



bigears


Joined: 14/03/2008
Posts: 62

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 13:31

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Message 99 of 119 in Discussion

Marion has no intention of leaving TRNC. Unfortunately things got taken out of context by the article in Cyprus Today. Marion said yesterday at the meeting that they are not destitute...... All we need to do is support each othere through all these problems. Numbers matter. If the government and anyone elses sees a large grooup of people supporting they are going to think twice about ignoring the problems. Whereas is there is only 2 or 3 people then they are more likely to be ignored.... Sue



gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 13:39

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Message 100 of 119 in Discussion

Hi Pipie



Sorry not been in touch will do soon,



Can you tell me how long you have been waiting for your deeds in Tatisulu.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 14:41

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Message 101 of 119 in Discussion

Hi gilken we purchased off plan in 2005 we have been told we will be receiving deeds in the next 3 months, up to now our developers we believe them to be reputable . Hope this helps .



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 15:03

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Message 102 of 119 in Discussion

Thanks Bigears for reply . I am so glad to hear Marian is not leaving . Well said re your post .



joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 15:26

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Message 103 of 119 in Discussion

One thing that was mentioned at the meeting yesterday was that they are beginning to transfer title deeds at Savyon Village which is, I believe, pre-74 Turkish Title and also that Medview has transferred deeds on one of its sites although we weren't told which one. Marion also said that Kibris Insaat always do everything by the book and transfer deeds without any problems (e.g. they do not demand extra money for this).



It was also said that Armacon has gone bust and that Boyut is the biggest developer here having built some 900 units. Santa Fe has built 600 units.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 15:53

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Message 104 of 119 in Discussion

Joand jelly , thanks for feedback , could i ask is Kibris Insaat a builder or advocate ? cheers



kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 18:05

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Message 105 of 119 in Discussion

thats the key to a good builder ,if they honour their agreement as well .



we may have a cheeky little builder trying it on for extra cash off our site ,if so then they will have gone down in a lot of peoples eyes and then will get a very bad reputation .



so we will see how the land lies over next few weeks ,then gather lots of numbers and bombard the complaints office im sure



kav



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 18:20

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Message 106 of 119 in Discussion

Msg 105: "...if so then they will have gone down in a lot of peoples eyes..."



Desperate times demand desperate measures.



kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 18:31

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Message 107 of 119 in Discussion

Desperate times demand desperate measures. (106)



i was being polite not political ,i fight fite with fire home or away



kav



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 18:38

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Message 108 of 119 in Discussion

Sorry Kav, I spend a lot of time in court and once I get outside I start spotting double entendres everywhere. Schoolboyish, I know, but it lightens things up sometimes.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 18:38

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Message 109 of 119 in Discussion

Pipie



As they say on a certain quiz - the clue is in the title.



insaat - builder.



jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
11/12/2008 22:38

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Message 110 of 119 in Discussion

molly i admire your determination.



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
11/12/2008 23:16

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Message 111 of 119 in Discussion

cyprusishome . ''Oh right '' thankyou



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
12/12/2008 10:25

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Message 112 of 119 in Discussion

Do the HBPG recommend any solicitors/advocates ?



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 13:33

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Message 113 of 119 in Discussion

Go to HBPG site and there is some info there you may find useful.



Problem that seems to come is, my good experience, your experience is bad. Not a lot different to UK really.



No going to name, names but I am sure some will work out.



One solicitor started their own business and was getting rave reviews. Then business expnded and you start to see the new staff. Followed by fees rising by 40%!!!!!!!



Next I heard and this is where it is iffy. An estate agent could not get official recognition. So the solicitor who could register started an Umbrella Company and Voila, as they say in France!! Dodgy estate agent still in business.



All of this is hear say of course, but living here it is a small place!!!



As far as I am concerned I would not trust any of them, regardless of how far I can throw them.





Sorry, for those who read closely, please substitute Avocat for solicitor!!



cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 13:42

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Message 114 of 119 in Discussion

cyprusishome this is not a rumour, it's fact about this advocate and its a massive conflict of interest for everyone involved.Its advocates husband who runs the umbrella company but all legal work must go through her apparantly so she is aiding and abetting the dodgy estate agent. Still I bet she doesnt care the amount of money she's raked in at the buyers expsens. Although I'm sure all the advocates will start to care when they can no longer scam the buyers as they have in the past. Most of the work you cn do yourself without using a lawyer charging extortionate fees for not giving the proper advice, not doing the proper checks or deceiving their customers and without having to have a duty of care to their customers to boot! I'm sure the HBPG can give you all the information about reputable advocates and how to do alot of the groundwork youself.



kibrissibel


Joined: 18/02/2008
Posts: 562

Message Posted:
12/12/2008 13:47

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Message 115 of 119 in Discussion

Pipie - if you email me I can answer your question. sibellehodge@hotmail.com



Sibel



PIPIE


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
12/12/2008 14:23

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Message 116 of 119 in Discussion

Sibel Thank you soooooooo much i have E-mailed you .



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:37

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Message 117 of 119 in Discussion

cyprusishome and cocos,I must admit I wished this young lady all the best in her new business venture a few years ago setting up on her own, as in the early days she did have a good reputation or so we thought.Of course many buyers at that time were inexperienced as I guess she was as her lititgation skills have never been tested which is similar to many of the advocats that have sprung up since the building boom.As purchasers became more familiar with whats going on here you realise that advocats have deceived purchasers by not telling them that there is no law that forces the vendor to hand over title deeds, that you have little chance of getting the penalty payments that your advocat put in the contracts,they failed to advise that developers can obtain mortgages on your property that you paid for in full and are living in, in fact they claim its perfectly normal.Before purchasers discovered the above this ladys busness grew and grew through word of mouth and internet sites like this



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 20:43

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Message 118 of 119 in Discussion

but unfortunately greed got the better of her and shes become involved in what I can only describe as a scam with her husband setting up an umbrella company so that dodgy estate agents can trade under it providing that there customers use a certain advocat! Can you guess who it is yet?



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/12/2008 21:22

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Message 119 of 119 in Discussion

BillyB & cocos.



Personally I know who we are talking about but I believe it is best interests not to mention yet again said companies.



Comes of living here for last 3 years and listening and learning.



Would add that we are still working through the process of getting completion but certainly in a far better position than many. One thing for certain would never go back to England, the solicitors there are even worse than here. Hva said here many times got scammed out of 5k on day before we should have signed contracts. Either pay or loose sale which we needed to make to pay later stage payments here.



Once again, let's try and do something now to try and influence the powers that be. If not do not go running to Marian, Sibel &co for help, they may one day give up as a bad job.



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