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EU want 25bn off UK for eurozone

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rick1


Joined: 20/04/2010
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 11:59

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Message 1 of 21 in Discussion

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8964734/EU-demands-25bn-lifeline-from-the-UK.html



The UK is imposing its own austerity measures, reducing pay and pensions, increasisng VAT etc how can it be expected to make such a payment and why should it.



TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 12:11

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Message 2 of 21 in Discussion

Tell them to get stuffed!



shel56


Joined: 10/09/2008
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 13:57

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Message 3 of 21 in Discussion

I agree totally with message 2. Anyway didn't they (Sarkozy and Merkel) tell us to butt out of their business? They have done nothing but make undiplomatic comments about us since we wouldn't sign up to the newest and craziest idea that they all seem to think will save them (after March 2012 that is - not sure what will happen inbetween then or if they expect commerce/finance to just stip!) anyway and we were told we wouldn't be invited to meetings since we were the only country not to sign up! Seems they only want us when they want money. David Cameron needs to tell them to go away! He has to see this through right to the end and I hope he will.



JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 14:20

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Message 4 of 21 in Discussion

Well done Cameron. As the boys in blue say, they can Foxtrot Oscar.



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 14:53

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Message 5 of 21 in Discussion

...to deny a contribution to the IMF may not be as simple as it seems



the origin of the body was the bretton woods agreement at the end

of ww2, as far as I understand it the original intention was to make

reconstruction funds available for a sudden crisis, like a flood



the then labour government borrowed from the IMF, in the late 70's



but it seems that any 200 billion eurozone bailout would be political,

to maintain the existence of the currency with all its blatant anomalies:

and do remember IMF chief lagarde was originally a sarkozey minister



on the other hand the uncontrolled collapse of the zone would spell

very severe trouble for the uk, and disaster on the continent



in the 1930's slump and depression pushed politicians into re-erecting

trade barriers, but this made things even worse



apart from legal moves against the uk or retaliation,

if such jiggery-pockery staves off a crash, it comes cheap at the price



this may be the bitter reality



kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 15:24

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Message 6 of 21 in Discussion

being a bit slow here ....its to save the single currency ,of which we dont have or run the euro we kept the pound



Ok somebody will tell me its something else and we all trade in the euro etc ....but do we if we have the pound and they have the euro .



Who are we all trying to please the usa?



kav



tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 15:58

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Message 7 of 21 in Discussion

DC will cave in and pay up like a good European fawn.



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 18:06

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Message 8 of 21 in Discussion

kavenkoy and tomsteel,



as I understand it, this is an international treaty obligation

...well ok if that really saves the euro it may be worth it,

a euro collapse or even a major slump is very bad for the uk



of course the IMF is not directly tied to the euro/europe but its

leaders may argue that if IMF member states need help they

should at least try to assist



of course it is a fit-up...but it may have force under international

law and if not uk could be thrown out of the IMF I suppose



but I have two problems with the suggestion:



firstly, does vast extra lending to the bankrupt help anyone in the end?

secondly is the eu just "pulling strings" to rescue its crippled currency?



the usa is now highly critical of the eu,

its pretensions and its untenable monetary system, and like the uk

they would be hurt bady in a crash



traditionally the IMF has a european president, the World Bank an

american...conspiracy theorists must be having a field day



tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 18:15

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Message 9 of 21 in Discussion

Msg 8. There may well be an international binding requirement on the UK. Such bindings were also applicable to the PIGS' governments. However, they chose to ignore proper tax collection systems, paid themselves inflated salaries the countries could ill-afford, massively inflated their public servants and fixed the books to EU accountants. Ergo, if they can ignore their legal obligations, why should the UK not do likewise. The euro is doomed because of the continual greed/mismanagement of governments running poorer southern European countries as though they were on a permanent road of gold. Regarding IMF/WB presidencies - China/India may well soon have these mantles.



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 19:53

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Message 10 of 21 in Discussion

tomsteel,



a tickertape just came up on sky news that uk government says "no"

...very good if they can

on past form, the eurozone states will then accuse britain of sabotage



I doubt there is anything to be gained by reminding us of the problems

in trying to collect taxes and spending prudently in club-med countries



the whole strategy of handing out enormous dollops of taxpayer money

to refinance these near-bankrupt economies could only ever succeed

if some dynamic growth was going on...of which there is none at all:



but it all looks instead like some kind of grotesque plate spinning act



meanwhile auntie ECB has at least been trying to pump up the banks to

stop them going under come what may

only problem here is these are fast running out of worthwhile collateral



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 20:40

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Message 11 of 21 in Discussion

On the BBC news tonite it said DC had said NO UK money for the IMF-EU bail out.

Quite right too.

Geoff

Famagusta City.



BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 22:10

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Message 12 of 21 in Discussion

Anyone lending our money to the eurozone should be put in prison for theft and fraud. It is throwing good money after bad. The euro is finished it cannot be saved. The only question is how much of OUR money these halfwits are going to waste trying to save their egoes



If you have cash assets in europe get them out and get them out quickly because when it goes it will be to late and you will probably lose everything



deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
19/12/2011 22:33

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Message 13 of 21 in Discussion

As said above if other members have been breaching the agreements with impunity why should Britain feel a need to act honourably and pay up ? Why not tot up all the fines the French and others have never paid and make them pay. Oh silly me, forgot that they do not have any audited acounts to refer to for a calculation of sums due but never paid. I may be at an age of dementia but I recall many incidents which these EU thieves choose to forget.



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 00:05

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Message 14 of 21 in Discussion

this is a bit off thread but does anyone appreciate why the french are so "angry" with britain?

they'd really prefer to have a go at germany but daren't, germany being the only outfit in europe

capable of reflating the eurozone ...but who resolutely refuse to be martyres for the profligate



it's called "displaced agression"



and even further off-thread, all those who wonder why putin seems so very beastly should see

an article in forbes magazine where the author points out how feeble and discredited the liberal

opposition is over there and how well-organised and dangerous the nationalists are becoming



"nationalism: is it bubblin' under the surface of europe?"



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 00:21

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Message 15 of 21 in Discussion

....just viewed a clip on sky news about this supposed "200 billion rescue fund"



it is money from eu central banks which by its own rules may not be lent directly

to eu governments but by "laundering" the cash through the IMF in a warm cycle

as one of the american experts explained, it becomes a perfectly legal operation



you couldn't make this up



BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 00:51

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Message 16 of 21 in Discussion

msg 15



' you couldn't make this up '



Welcome to EU La La land where anything is possible.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 08:31

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Message 17 of 21 in Discussion

I think I will convert what little money I have in euros back to dollars and pounds. It can be too late next month.

ismet



davpat


Joined: 23/08/2011
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 10:17

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Message 18 of 21 in Discussion







a wise move Ismet,if I was in your position with Euro's in the bank,thats exactly the course I would be taking.





Take care,



David



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 13:26

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Message 19 of 21 in Discussion

ismet and others,



in a doomsday scenario if that is not something of a wee exaggeration,

if it is republic of cyprus money,

it could eventually be re-valued as "cyprus pounds"

...or they may break with the past and call them "kibris" or "aphrodites"



which begs the question:

where exactly did aphrodite supposedly climb out of the sea?



otherwise, lazarus-like,

the eurozone could miraculously rise from its sickbed,

or as mark twain once said reading his newspaper obitiary printed in error

"reports of my death are greatly exaggerated"



martinev


Joined: 24/10/2008
Posts: 320

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 13:47

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Message 20 of 21 in Discussion

I was under the impression that the IMF was there to support "Countries" in strife not "currencies".



Therefore sincerely hope the UK tells the EU "non", "nein" etc. etc.



If you allow club members "in" who have obviously falsified their application, then the responsibility lies with other club members to sort things out.



Martinev



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
20/12/2011 14:53

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Message 21 of 21 in Discussion

my personal opinion is that all the conferences and plans, are just delaying tactics:

this is not as daft as it sounds



if the market recovers its nerve and/or growth picks up, then the situation is saved



'course, the chance of this happening in the next year or so is fairly remote, given

the ingredients of the problem



another take on rescue packages is a sort of pass-the-parcel ie whoever didn't say

"yes" to the last splendid wheeze is the guilty one, damned for eternity



seriously, experts reckon some two to three trillion euros is needed to save the 'zone

plus if structural problems cannot be solved permanent cash injections from germany



you what?!?



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