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Title deeds and cheating builders

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Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 09:27

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Message 1 of 49 in Discussion

Is anyone being or has been cheated by their builderover title deeds. Have they tried to blackmail you into paying their tax? Has anyone managed to beat them at their own game?



negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 11:26

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Message 2 of 49 in Discussion

i'm sure the answer to the first bit will be "yes" but the answer to the last bit will be "no".....



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 12:35

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Message 3 of 49 in Discussion

is the post closed now?



kaiserphil


Joined: 14/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 12:38

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Message 4 of 49 in Discussion

Troodo - why do you ask? Is someone doing this to you?

Some developers have been doing this for years.



greenman


Joined: 16/02/2008
Posts: 526

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 13:12

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Message 5 of 49 in Discussion

What tax are they asking you to pay? The stopaj (withholding tax) is paid by a the builder, but the KDV is a purchaser cost, just as you would have to pay a VAT registered builder in the UK.

I understand that the TRNC builders association are petitioning the Government to reduce the purchaser's tax and so telling their members not to issue title deeds until this happens.

greenman



Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 14:49

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Message 6 of 49 in Discussion

Thanks greenman. Do you have a link? It is the tax that they have to pay before the deeds are released. I have had the money I need to pay in trust for five years.



Mr Vince


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 696

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 14:56

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Message 7 of 49 in Discussion

Our builder tried to fiddle us out of money when we tried to get our kocan. Firstly he gave us a receipt for our KDV tax, when we checked with the tax office the figure on our receipt was different to what he actually paid. Result.....we got a 1000TL refund. Then he gave us a photo copy receipt for 5 years property tax which he claims to have paid. Problem was this was a dodgy receipt also. Result.....970 TL refund after several threats. In all, just under 2000 TL refunded. We are still fighting for a 190 refund for an advert regarding parcelisation, and I am sure that he will see the error of his ways shortly.



greenman


Joined: 16/02/2008
Posts: 526

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 15:10

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Message 8 of 49 in Discussion

Troodo, Not sure what link you are asking for, but if it's to do with the builder's petition there's a Cyprus Today (24/02/2010) article here:

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT240210_construction_protest.html

The deadline of 31 March has past, and not aware of current position.

Perhaps other members could help.

greenman



cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 16:09

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Message 9 of 49 in Discussion

yes no my answer



hsd the last laugh cos hes finished now



girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 17:31

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Message 10 of 49 in Discussion

"Is anyone being or has been cheated by their builderover title deeds."





Is the Pope a Catholic?



laptagal


Joined: 28/05/2008
Posts: 549

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 19:11

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Message 11 of 49 in Discussion

Hi Greenman / Troodo. I was told about the buiders boycot by Naomi Mehmet on 6th April, when I was told that we have had our permission to purchase granted. I posted the extract from the email here;

http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/show2.asp?messageID=34753

I have recently asked for an update and await response.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 23:32

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Message 12 of 49 in Discussion

Hi All,



Yes we paid 100% of our contractrual obligations in May 09 (to help the builders cash flow problems)



We asked for our kochan and he demanded 7000 more without any justification.



We eventually settled in March 09 3000 cash now, plus up to 4000 on a pound for pound settlement with all site residents



to complete the site at our expense. A TOTAL OF 7000 PLUS WE agreed to pay the cost of our own pool a further 2000 plus.



We gave our advocate 7000 in cash ist week March 10, and we were promised that there could be NO MORE problems and our



kochan would be issued without delay. On the basis of this assurrance we transfered funds to cover the KDV and transfer tax.



Our advocate applied to the Land Registry to effect a transfer of the kochan. He was told that this was not possible as a



Memorandum had been attached to our deeds for 80,000 for a judgement debt against the builders. We were advised that our



villa could be sold to pay the buil



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 23:47

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Message 13 of 49 in Discussion

cont......the builders debts.



We can get NO information from our advocate as to the status of this issue. Our E mails are just ignored.



The builder appears to have just walked away from his debts although he continues to build apartments at The Riverside, and



construct a villa for a millionaire. The advocate continues in business but without acknowledgeing a DUTY OF CARE to his clients.



(We have no doubt whatsoever that he is doing everything in his power to rectify this situation, but why are we not advised the



status of this situation)



THE BUILDERS TASIM AND TAYLAN HILKAT. THE COMPANY GREATSTONE CONSTRUCTIONS LIMITED>



THE ADVOCATE MUNIL AKIL LAW FIRM (Barrister in Law at London Chambers)



THE ESTATE AGENTS UNWINS ESTATE AGENTS.



Finally we are told that the builder has four sites Malataya, Incescu, Lapta 2 and Esentepe where people have paid for their



villas AND THEY DO NOT OWN THE LAND THAT THEY HAVE BUILT ON.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
24/04/2010 23:53

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Message 14 of 49 in Discussion

I CALL ON THE GOVERNMENT OF THE TRNC and draw to the attention of the judiciary of The TRNC to this situation, and



request that they investigate the circumstances surrounding THESE INDIVIDUALS trading histories and ensure that good faith



and respect for Internationally recognised justice be allowed to prevail.



John Cooper

11 Wellington Drive

Wynyard Park

Billingham TS 22 5QJ

United Kingdom



Tel 01740 644095



pjnxi



Joined: 12/02/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
25/04/2010 00:28

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Message 15 of 49 in Discussion

Is That the SUN.OR A BUILDER PAYING TAX. PJNXI



lippylush


Joined: 29/12/2006
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
25/04/2010 14:28

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Message 16 of 49 in Discussion

RE Message 15. Not sure I understand exactly what you are saying. Could you clarify please.

Totally agree with all Wynyardman is saying .



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/04/2010 15:55

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Message 17 of 49 in Discussion

Wynyardman, I've published your story on NCFP. If you want to change anything just email me.

http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/04/25/mr-president-what-are-you-going-to-do-about-this/



lippylush


Joined: 29/12/2006
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
25/04/2010 22:55

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Message 18 of 49 in Discussion

Wow Cooper you're becoming famous!!!!



AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 08:34

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Message 19 of 49 in Discussion

See also:



http://www.cyprus-news.org/2010/04/25/mr-president-what-are-you-going-to-do-about-this/



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 08:49

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Message 20 of 49 in Discussion

Good for you Wyn !!!



malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 09:48

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Message 21 of 49 in Discussion

Msg 19, its the same story. Cyprus News Organisation links to NCFP when you click on the ...more link. The more websites that carry the story, the merrier.



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 09:53

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Message 22 of 49 in Discussion

Well done Wyn. I hope you can get this cleared up as soon as possible. What a worry this must be.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
26/04/2010 23:57

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Message 23 of 49 in Discussion

Thank you all for your help, and gestures of support.



Lets hope for justice for all those so afflicted.



wynyardman



Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 00:22

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Message 24 of 49 in Discussion

Hello Wyn,



From the last ime we met it was hoped that you would have had thing's sorted by now.



I know you are not the type to give in to this fraud/theft. I wish you all the best.



RU over in Cyprus for Patricia's doo ?



T.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 00:36

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Message 25 of 49 in Discussion

Hiya Tiggy,



No we wont be over in TRNC for Pats birthday but we are going to Tring for "The Official Bash".



Yeah ware are struggling with the kochan ripoff syndrome, but we shall just have to make sure that justice prevails.



I will give you the nod when we are next over and we will have a few beers.



Take care now,



John



Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 01:04

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Message 26 of 49 in Discussion

Wyn,



we will meet at "The Official Bash" Patricia likes the lower class as well !



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 20:26

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Message 27 of 49 in Discussion

Hi All,



Forgive me but I need clarification Firstly thank you (our beloved Ismet) Also Basheer and Malsancak whose help has become invaluable. We have seen the comments and advice from Ismet and others but the way forward seems unclear.



1 When you pay stamp duty and register your property, are you free from all potential encumberances on your property?

2 If memorandums can be attached to your property (virtue of a court order) do they outrank a registration?

3 If a memorandum is sent to the Land Registry, do they have authority to attach it to your property?

4 If they attach it without your authority, is it valid?

5 Can the attachment of a memorandum be appealed to a court?.

6 The Estate Agents Act was meant to protect (I think) buyers against unscrupulous builders, selling, mortgaging

or otherwise encumbering property, without your permission. Does it rank over any other attached encumberance on your investment?



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 20:36

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Message 28 of 49 in Discussion

7 We paid our Stamp duty and our property was "registered with the Land Registry. We were lead to believe our property was secure. It was not. A memorandum was attached for 80,000 for a judgement debt against our builder Greatstone Constructions Limited. (Taylan and Tashir Hilcat Directors).

8 We are receiving differing legal advise. We are told that the Land Registry do not know whether they should attach memorandums

and are awaiting guidance. We are deeply indebted for all the advise that we have received from CYPRUS 44.



WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO PROTECT THE PROPERTY THAT WE HAVE PAID FOR?



John and Julie Cooper



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 20:59

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Message 29 of 49 in Discussion

Dear Wyn,



You raise some very interesting questions that I am sure many forum members are interested in getting the answers too. It does not seem that long ago, that we were all rushing to register our contracts thinking that this action safeguarded our homes and believing that at long-last an initiative to protect buyers had finally been introduced.



Now we find that memorandums have replaced mortgages and your property is still at risk. As ever in the TRNC there is always a loop hole which allows unscrupulous builders to abuse or blackmail the buyer.



The problem also relates to the delay in getting deeds because until anyone actually has them in their hands they are never regarded as the true owner of the property and this allows the developer to continue looking after his own financial interests .

Sorry that you have had this experience Wyn. It shows how risky it is to buy off plan and just what can and frequently does go wrong.

Hope it works out in the end.



McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 21:01

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Message 30 of 49 in Discussion

John, we have all the same questions. When we registered our contract at the land registrey, we were given a green light that there were no problems, we find out in the last 3 weeks, that there was a mortgage (charge) put on the land 2 years previously. we were all told that thiamine was our safeguard by this government. Obviously not.....mc



Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 21:12

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Message 31 of 49 in Discussion

I wonder how many people are not even aware that their properties have mortgages and memorandums on them?



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 21:18

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Message 32 of 49 in Discussion

Mac.



We clearly have an issue. We need an advocate that demonstrate to us the way to protect our properties.



We should work together, 1 way forward clearly understood and agreed. 1 legal representative.



United we will stand Divided we will fall. You have my E mail.



John



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 21:49

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Message 33 of 49 in Discussion

Bradus,



A very valid point!



What sort of a legal system allows a "charge" to be registered on a property, without advising the owners (those with a legal contract), who have made payments against it) We were not advised, we did not have the opportunity to make our claim in court

(not that seems to matter in The TRNC legal system) We have NO right of appearance, and no right of appeal



When we paid our Stamp Duty and "registered" our properties, we were assurred that our properties were protected against any encumberances. WE WERE LIED TO BY THE LEGAL FRATERNITY OF THE TRNC.



I HAVE PAID FOR 100% OF MY PROPERTY. WHY CAN I NOT HAVE MY KOCHAN?



MR PRESIDENT....British buyers and Ex pats have been the mainstay of The TRNC economy. Interest rates on deposits are falling. New house sales are non existent. Inflation is rampant. Turkey have limited patience. GET REAL!



Start protecting the people that are supporting your economy.



wynyardamn



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/04/2010 23:49

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Message 34 of 49 in Discussion

Hi All,



IF YOU DO NOT YET HAVE YOUR KOCHAN....................................



CHECK WITH THE LAND REGISTRY, TO ENSURE THAT THERE ARE NO ENCUMBERANCES ON YOUR PROPERTY.



TRNC LAW ALLOWS THIS, WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE ADVISED, WITHOUT ANY RIGHT OF APPEAL. YOUR ADVOCATE



MAY ASSURE YOU OTHERWISE, BUT THE FACT IS HE or SHE MAY NOT NKOW, UNTIL THEY COME TO TRANSFER THE



KOCHAN INTO YOUR NAME.



UNBELIEVABLE.........................................CHECK IT OUT!



Wynayrdman



Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 11:28

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Message 35 of 49 in Discussion

Wynyardman,

I read a reply by Elko2 recently which, unfortunately, I cannot now find.

I understood him to be saying that in cases where a kocan had more than 1 claim attached to it, then the courts would decide the claims in the order in which they were attached.

eg. Your contract was registered first then a memorandum was added later, so your contract would take priority. I suggest you confirm this with Elko2.



McSteviet,

Not such good news for you I'm afraid.

I don't understand why you were not informed of the existing mortgage when you registered your contract. Ask your Lawyer.

However, your registration should still give you priority over any other claims added subsequently, so it was still worth doing. If/when the first mortgage is paid back, your contract would then have first priority.



Elko2,

How am I doing? Did I understand you correctly?

Regards,

Ozbey.



Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 11:37

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Message 36 of 49 in Discussion

winyardman, McSteviet,

I have now found the Elko2 reply.

It was in the thread titled "memorandums and the tapu office" currently in the top half of page 2.



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 12:20

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Message 37 of 49 in Discussion

I have just queried Elko2 re his posting in the thread entitled 'Memorandums & the Tapu Office', which brought the topic 'back to the top'.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 13:44

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Message 38 of 49 in Discussion

Wonderful news for all with this "memorandum" dilemma. We are all indebted to Ismet for the content of message.



Ismet, You are a star! I guess that is now two good dinners I owe you.



Thanks a million.



wynyardman



Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 13:49

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Message 39 of 49 in Discussion

wynyardman,

I'm cheaper than Ismet, a beer and some nuts will do me.

Regards,

Ozbey.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 13:58

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Message 40 of 49 in Discussion

Ozbey,



OK Ice cold effes and a bucket of nuts for your helpful contribution!



I owe Ismet for many helpful off board communications. The mans a star!



Thank you all for your contributions,



wynyardman



Ozbey


Joined: 04/03/2009
Posts: 304

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 14:39

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Message 41 of 49 in Discussion

I was only joking, no reward necessary.

I was only the messenger, pleased to pass on useful info to those who are being cheated in such an apalling way.

Ozbey.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 15:11

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Message 42 of 49 in Discussion

please read this for further information http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/35322.asp

ismet



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
30/04/2010 23:19

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Message 43 of 49 in Discussion

Wynyardman, Go to the press with your story for maximum exposure.



lippylush


Joined: 29/12/2006
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 00:47

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Message 44 of 49 in Discussion

Yes Wyn

It's about time Part 2 was published.

Sue



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 01:53

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Message 45 of 49 in Discussion

I accept Ismets advice and I have asked that my advocate contact him to agree a way forward.



What would be even more helpful is if Ismet could estimate a timescale for an advocate to contact the TAPU, and then make

an application to The President of the Court. Perhaps also an estimate of the likely addition legal costs.



I really wonder if these builders realise the worry and anxiety, not to mention stress they cause to well meaning people who

have done nothing more that try and conduct business with them. I agree with other posters that there actions are "criminal"

and it is about time the police were more proactive. Perhaps the New President of the TRNC will see the value to The TRNC, in cleaning up this most lucrative part of his Economy.



Can the Advocates of The TRNC not sit with the President of the Courts, and agree "the way forward" to relieve the stress on so many buyers. A little good faith, could go so far.



wynyardman



Thank you Ismet. Youre a



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 02:11

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Message 46 of 49 in Discussion

Msg 45 Should read ........... Ismet is a Star.



Anyone interested in, or effected by this thread, should also read ...." Memorandums and The TAPU Office." http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/35322.asp



wyn



Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
02/05/2010 19:15

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Message 47 of 49 in Discussion

Or 'Hector's' post:



'TRNC advocates take note!' http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/35132.asp



bazilbrush


Joined: 29/03/2008
Posts: 404

Message Posted:
16/12/2010 16:01

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Message 48 of 49 in Discussion

Hi Wyn

Did you ever sort this out with the builder as my friend has a similar problem in Alsancak getting his deeds. I have been trying to contact a solicitor in Nicosia called Cagda Pehlivan if anyone has a number or email please.



jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
16/12/2010 17:42

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Message 49 of 49 in Discussion

bazilbrush, I suggest you email wyn.



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